Core Machine: Roon Nucleus+ running 1.8/783
Network: Wired over Trendnet SFP switch
Playback: Benchmark DAC 3b USB fed from Sonore Optical Rendu
I’m writing to report a bug I’ve been seeing in all builds of 1.8 up to and including 783: some recordings of classical compositions in my collection are missing from the “Recordings by album” list on the respective Composition pages even though the corresponding albums are all correctly listed in the “Albums by Popularity” list on that Composition page.
To give an example …
I have three different recordings of Gesualdo’s 6th book of madrigals in my collection, one each by the Compagnia del Mardrigale, the Kassiopeia Quintet, and Delitiae Musicae. Looking at the following screenshot of the album page for one of them, Roon’s clearly aware that there 3 different recordings of this work in collection.
Likewise, if I go to the Composition page page and display “Albums by popularity” I see the three albums I’m expecting, as illustrated in the following screenshot.
However, if I then set the Composition page to display “Recordings by album”, I only see two of those recordings – in this case the recording by Delitiae Musicae is missing --, as illustrated in the following screenshot.
This is just one example. I’ve seen the same issue elsewhere in my collection as well. Unfortunately, I don’t have any sense of what distinguishes the recordings missing from the list that might help explain why they are not displayed.
Thanks @bbrip! Yes, that switch was on and when I turned it off the missing recordings reappeared in the couple of of cases I’ve checked since.
& just to be clear in case support reads this at some point: it is still a bug. The recordings missing from the list with that switch turned on were complete and not partial.
ROCK Version 1.0 (build 227) stable
Roon Server Version 1.8 (build 783) stable
Local Files only
Description Of Issue
It is the easter week and I’d wanted to listen Bach’s St. Matthew Passion. Checking my recordings I found that I see only one single recording on the main composition page, while I have 47 recordings (including excerpts).
All my other recordings of BWV 244 show the same number, but I cannot find them via this link. I need to find them via album name:
Funy thing: when I search for “BWV 244” the hit for the composition shows the cover of a Helmuth Rilling compliation that I won’t find when clicking on it…
Any idea what is happening here? This is most annoying and did not happen before. Can’t say it started with 1.8 or any further release of 1.8, though, but I’m pretty sure I didn’t have it with 1.7. Absolutely sure for the Bach.
I f anybody asks: Yes I have rebooted my client and my core several times…
I have done some file tag editiing (changed the ALBUM tag and the WORK/PART tag for the Zinman Mahler 1) and lost Zinmans Mahler 1. Now I have only 2 recordings left.
However, I found that all Mahler symphonies have these 2 recordings only:
I have WORK/PART tag set for all recordings (the Zinman was the only one missing it). The St. Matthew-Passions are all completely tagges with WORK/PART.
I seem to have found the issue. I had the indicator “Only complete recordings” switched on. I did this when 1.8 was released in order to test its behaviour with Qobuz. In the meantime I have discarded my streaming subscription again but I left this flag set as “on”.
“Complete Performance” is data we get from one of our metadata providers. It’s pretty comprehensive, but like any metadata there will be gaps and mistakes.
When Roon matches an album, some performances may include the “complete” flag and only those with the flag will be displayed when the toggle is set.
This can happen when we identify a streaming album or a local album but we only know if the flag is set or not. This means that while the list should only contain complete performances, it’s definitely possible that some complete performances are missing.
Our goal here was to make it easy for people exploring classical music to find full performances, as opposed to accidentally stumbling on excepts or sifting through the list based on duration. If you’re missing performances or finding this data is incomplete or inaccurate, flipping the toggle off should show you the same list as previous versions of Roon.
We have ideas about improving and expanding this data in the future, but since we had a well-populated flag available we wanted to get this into the product as part of the 1.8 release.
It’s not possible yet, but its a good one for the feature requests category – definitely something I’d like to add support for in the future if there’s interest.
I’m not sure, I completely understand. Would the Mahler 1st symphony composition view exclude the same albums if I’d use a streaming service? Maybe some other user could test.
Sure I am interested.With such a file tag, I would be at least assured that performances which I know are complete will indeed show up in my local library.
Another question for you @mike. Is there a way to check for the presence of this “complete” flag in the metadata coming from your providers, eg AllMusic or MusicBrainz ? It’s the vey first time I ever hear of this flag.
.
Regards
I did not test with the Mahler 1, but with Berlioz Symphonie Fantastique by Nézet-Séguin. With “Only complete recordings” activated, both my local copy and the one available on Qobuz disappear.This is so even if I unidentify the albums.
Mike,
I spent a couple of hours thinking and working about your message. I went back to my test case, Symphonie fantastique by Berlioz, comparing results with the “Only complete recordings” (OCR) setting on vs off.
Focusing on my local library, I know I have 14 complete recordings of this work, all Roon-identified. With OCR activated, only 7 are listed. That is a hit rate of 50%.
Focusing on Hires and Qobuz (local library excluded), with OCR off, I get 98 results. I carefully scanned this list, and could identify 50 complete performances inside it After activating OCR, the list shrinks to 21. The hit rate is less than 50%. Notable missing performances are those by Bernstein, Abbado, Gergiev, Cluytens, Wallenstein , Nézet-Séguin, among others. Not obscure conductors.
With all respect, I qualify those results as poor. It looks like the “complete” flag you get from your metadata providers (which ones?) are flaky and way incomplete. Frankly speaking, how long will it take to get the providers to fix that ? Is Roon going to request the providers to do that ? When you say that “we only know if the flag is set or not” what do you precisely mean. When it is set, is it explicitly set to “complete” or “incomplete”.
If the flag does not appear inside the providers metadata, does Roon interpret this as “unknown” or as “incomplete” ? If the first case (no flag) is true, then deciding that “only those with the flag will be displayed when the toggle is set” is likely to be wrong. If the flag is absent from the metadata, you cannot conclude anything and another technique should be sought to identify an incomplete performance,
I understand that the current implementation of the toggle can help eliminating lots of excerpts and please those “exploring classical music”. But please do not forget and penalize those (experienced, old, passionate) people who know their libraries . And please, please, please, do not throw into oblivion important performances, just because a complete flag is missing or wrongly set in the metadata.
So here are my thoughts on what should be done.
The toggle should not be activated by default.
The toggle should be removed from its actual location (@bbrip has already mentioned it is ill-placed), and given its own place on the composition page. Too many people have complained they do not know about its existence or where to find it.
The beta-status of the toggle should be clearly indicated.
The toggle should be deactivated upon entering the composition page, to force users to explicitly set it each time if needed.
For those (important experienced users) with local files, a way to tag those files with a complete/incomplete status should be implemented asap. I do not understand why you would wait for a feature request, and then think about its merits.
You already know that many users are “sifting through the list based on duration”. Could you not integrate this procedure in your selection algorithm ?
. Looked for hours. Where is it hidden?