15-20 delay to start a 192K WAV track sometimes - is that normal?[Solved - Hardware below spec]

Hi All,

I’m new to Roon and to this community so let me know if this isn’t the category for this question.

I am running Roon on a Windows 7 laptop outputting to a Wyred4Sound DAC2. The sound is glorious! A bit nicer than JRiver, although JRiver did a nice job.

But with Roon, anytime I skip to new song I experience a 15-20 delay before the song starts. This doesn’t happen when I play an album through, and it occasionally happens between songs on a playlist.

All my music are 192K24b WAV files I’ve upsampled using a program I wrote some years ago. Everything plays, eventually, but the excessive delay is a nuisance.

Any ideas to help me?

Thanks.

Richard

Hi Richard,

Sounds like hardware performance.

What is the specification of the laptop (CPU, GPU, RAM, HDD or SSD)?
Also how full is the drive?
Where are your music files stored (laptop drive, NAS, …)?

These are very large files. Are these files being streamed on your network?
MD

You blew up the files and now you are wondering why you have problems streaming gigantic files full of hot air :roll_eyes:

Assuming that as this is a laptop and your files are large that these are streaming from a NAS or network drive and likely the laptop is connected via wifi?

Wifi is a less than ideal nor adequate means for streaming hi bitrate content.

This would setup could potentially take some time to buffer enough data to start playing.

Thanks for your responses.

Sorry for not supplying more information. The music files are on USB external drives direct attached to the laptop. I’ve played JRiver for these files with this setup for years with never any delay problems, so I’m sure the issue is not hardware, CPU, or drive performance.

Also, once the music starts, there is no problem in the sound until the next song is played from a different album folder.

My guess is that Roon software is having trouble getting the buffering started due to the file being an older WAV format, but I don’t know why or what to do about it. I plan to convert a few of the tracks to FLAC or WMA to see if those play properly. I don’t want to convert my music library from WAV to another format since I think I’m getting a fuller sound with uncompressed WAV, based on a few tests I’ve done. The difference is minor at most but I want the best sound I can get.

Roon is not JRiver, thus the comparison does not aid much in diagnosing where the issue may lie … knowing if the specification of your hardware meets Roon’s minimum requirements is important and that’s why I asked those questions.

I too suspect it is a buffering issue (and those large WAV files might be an issue) … I was going to suggest you tested with some FLAC files or even standard rate WAV but I wanted to rule out hardware limitations first.

PS Roon does not support WMA format, check out the Roon Knowledge Base is a good source of reference.

Thanks Carl. I will convert a few to FLAC & report back.

Try and transfer some of these files to your local hard drive and then see if this will work. Because of these large files and also with probably a USB 2.0 external drive, this is where a bottleneck of somewhat could be.

Two options would be USB 3.0 or local disk. You laptop might not have a USB 3.0. If it does have a 3.0 then make sure that the external drive is also 3.0. However it should work ok on your local internal hard drive. If this fixes it, then getting a bigger internal hard drive would be a work around until you convert.

I am also a fan of WAV. Probably 90% of my High Res are WAV. I have them ripped at 24/96 and I have no issues at all in Roon with these files whether Wi-Fi or hard wire. It was the way Roon handled my WAV files that sold me on Roon.

MD

This would be a good test @Richard_Tibbets – this sounds a lot like what I would expect if a hard drive is spinning up when we go to load the file.

We try to pre-load the next song in the queue, but if we try to load a song and it’s on a hard drive that’s spun down, we have to wait.

It would be interesting to know if this ever happens with files on a hard drive that you’re actively using, like your system drive. Let us know how it’s going and we can take a deeper look if you’re stuck.

2 Likes

Well, I converted a few files to FLAC and to the newer WAV format, and the delay start up problem still exists.

I’ll move a few files to my internal laptop drive and test those and report back.

Thanks for the help.

1 Like

I finally got around to moving some files to the laptop internal drive, and the delay problem still persists. I also moved my main music database to usb 3.0 My Book Duo external drive.

The problem: When I skip to the next track of an album the music will not play for 15 to 30 seconds, then it will start and play fine. This delay will also occur on about every fifth playlist track.

At this point, I think I just have to live with the problem. It’s more an annoyance than anything major.

How big are these files.

JRiver config allows for 3 modes ,

on the fly ie loading as it plays,
memory by track ie load trac then play it
Memory by Album le load the whole album then play

Which do you have set up. No 1 would respond instantly

Mike

Meet us halfway Richard; just let us know the CPU ?

Because it still sounds like a performance issue and there are minimum specs.

Hi Andrew & Mike,

Thanks for the prompt responses.

Mike - this delay issue only happens with Roon. I used JRiver for 3+ years and never had this problem. I’m pretty sure it was set up to play instantly and not preload tracks or albums. I ran Jriver with default settings for most everything. Roon sounds so much better to my ears that going back to JRiver is not an option for me.

Andrew - here are my specs:
Laptop - Lenovo Thinkpad Edge, CPU AMD A6-5350M 2.9 GHz, Memory 4 GB, Windows 7 64-bit, Internal HDD 300GB.
Music folders - WD My Duo 20 TB in default RAID configuration (no redundancy). Attached to USB 3.0 input.

music files are 192K24b WAV. I’ve converted a few to FLAC with same results.

Thanks again for you help.

rick

Mike, Andrew, or anyone else willing to test their setup for me,

I’d like you to perform a test on your Roon set-up and tell me what happens:

  1. Get either a 192K24b FLAC or WAV album or a playlist with consecutive 192K24b FLAC or WAV tracks.

  2. Start playback.

  3. After 30 seconds or so of playing, click the PREV icon to restart the track. Do you get any long delay in playback start-up.

  4. Again, after 30 seconds or so of playing, click the NEXT icon go skip to the next track. Do you get any long delay in playback start-up.

Letting me know your results can help me isolate the problem to my system somewhere and not within Roon’s software.

Thanks!

Rick

Hi Richard,

Your Core machine is under recommended hardware spec in two important respects. The A6 CPU and an internal HDD rather than SSD for the Roon database.

I’d suggest you look at an i5 NUC running ROCK as a Core machine.

I can’t replicate any transport control delay using the method outlined above (i7 Core, SSD) with a 196kHz/24 FLAC album (Astral Weeks).

I upsample to 768 kHz PCM on the fly using HQP rather than store upsampled files, Roon lets me upsample Tidal content as well as my local library.

An i7 can be overkill and introduce thermal issues, but one of the current i5 CPUs could suit you very well.

1 Like

Hi @Richard_Tibbets

I’ve completed all those tests on my system … all the track transitions were all seamless.

Music - 192/24 FLAC (I don’t have any WAV)

  • Hotel California
  • Mozart Violin Concerto

Computer Equipment

  • Lenovo i7 8GB RAM, with hybrid internal drive (OS and Roon DB)
  • Windows 10 64bit
  • Roon 64bit
  • QNAP NAS for music file storage.

Audio Zones

  • Meridian 861/ID40 (via Sooloos)
  • Meridian Explorer (via RAAT USB)
  • Sky-Q (via AirPlay)

Looking at your system specs, not having an SSD will slow down Roon searches etc. but queue playback should be fine. CPU should ok (I believe it is equivalent to an i3) provided your not using DSP functionality too heavily. However, I think it’s light on RAM … if the OS is paging (using disk as memory) that can cripple performance.

EDIT just seen Andy’s post stating CPU is light… he has a point when we are considering 192/24 files.

2 Likes

Thanks Carl & Andy,

I’m convinced that my problem is the hardware being below spec. I’ll begin planning for some upgrades soon!

Rick

3 Likes

I am glad to hear that your WAV collection is ok.

MD