Hello Daniel,
Important question! Inquiring minds would like to know (smile)…
Is roon Labs ready to disclose? Have they already? I am vaguely remembering a vague reference to “as a work in progress” with vague as the operative word.
Best,
Richard
@Go_Ga Would a virtual Roon speaker work? Allowing you to take the Roon bit perfect output and feed it into you preferred software player? Would it make more sense for other software player develops to find ways to receive a Roon feed rather than Roon to develop the different filters and DSPs that are already out there? (I have no idea how possible this is technically!)
Cheers
Tom
I believe the Future will reveal further developments that, I surmise, will be welcome. At least in my opinion. But I am not free to say more. Looking forward to the evolution and implementation that may be on roon Labs agenda. Just in case, please don’t query me further so I won’t have to avoid further comment.
Best,
Richard
It all depends on the protocol used by both the ROON speakers and the player. I know that ROON already supports ASIO and I’ve tried ROON -> JPlay ASIO without satisfying results. This is because JPlay doesn’t perform any DSP as far as I know. There are probably other audiophile grade players that can take ASIO input perform DSP and send to DAC. I have no experience with any of them.
I certainly don’t have an amazing system, it’s meridian pre/power, audiolab dac, B&W speakers and a PC with not a single moving part in it. I think the SQ from Roon is fantasic, i’ve tried audivarna on my mac mini and much prefer Roon. But i suppose i wasn’t cursed with bat like hearing.
This thread back in June mentioned Jussi dropping off code for Roon to look into integration; @danny said it was early days:
Haven’t seen any announcement since but am quite willing to climb on any bandwagon about it, because I’d love to see it.
If it is in progress then ability to set default settings for different resolutions sounds like it could be a useful feature.
Edit: I see @kirk was able to say at that stage that HQP integration was expected by the end of summer. Might be one of those Indian Summers !
Yes and no. I shouldn’t care as I’ve got a life subscription. But I do care as licensing loads of filters etc I may or may not use costs money, and these licencing costs will deplete the cash available for Roon to continue to do what I actually want them to do, which is develop the GUI.
How many licences do you want them to subscribe to? With respect whatever your personal opinion on SQ is there will be lots of people with “golden ears” (ha!) who want a different licence purchased. That’s why Oppo does such a good job. They’re volume manufacturers who can afford to pay the Bluray licence. Any small manufacturer is merely going to rebadge an Oppo, why do anything else?
There comes a point where too much of the Roon subscription is spent on a multitude of subscriptions to filters etc from third party providers that an insufficient number of Roon users actually use that it puts new Roon subscribers off subscribing. At this point my/our lifetime subscription become irrelevant. Roon ceases to develop as no one is interested in buying new subscriptions due to the cost of non essential features.
That’s why I’d prefer Roon stick to their knitting/crocheting/etc and let the end user decide on what filter provider they go with, paying for it separately. If you feel it makes your system “too complicated” that’s tough. I find it astonishing that folks who proclaim to have audiophile systems and such perfect hearing that minute tweaks are plainly audible then complain about complexity.
If you have such a system and can’t tweak it yourselves I wonder who set them up for you in the first place, and why you can’t employ them again.
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The HQP integration will require users to separately obtain an HQP license, just like Tidal, so won’t affect Roon’s subscription business model. I suspect HQP integration to attract more subscribers, enabling more available funds to develop other features, such as the gui. At the moment I think the gui is “best in show”, but there are other programs that offer better (albeit slightly) SQ.
You may want to read this thread about sound quality. Brian from Roon has some good posts.
I liken a lot of the tweaking discussions on hi Fi forums to the task of cleaning your windows in bright sunshine. You always see the marks and so the discussion begins.
“I use X make polish, I use Y brand cloth. I am a traditionalist and only use vinegar with newspaper. Newspaper is great but the Gaurdian has the best quality” and on and on.
All the time forgetting to just re focus and enjoy the view out of the window.
Thoughts, Chris 
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I get the point you’re making, but I think it’s possible you’re going a bit overboard here. No, I don’t want Roon to bankrupt itself, nor do I want Roon to license a bazillion upsampling/filtering technologies. Right now Roon has none, and what I think would be useful for a lot of users would be to have high-quality upsampling/filtering that’s easy to configure and use (but not compulsory). Audirvana and Fidelia both license this kind of technology from third parties, and I’m pretty sure neither one of the developers has orders of magnitude more financial resources than Roon does.
I think perhaps the difference in perspective has to do, at least in part, with coming from being a fan of the Meridian ecosystem or something similar, vs. having spent more time mixing and matching hardware and software components from a range of manufacturers. (And BTW, I specifically mentioned upthread that I didn’t think I had “golden ears.” However, I can do A-B comparisons of the same track played back via two different applications.)
This seems a bit gratuitously confrontational, but I’ll attempt a reasonable response: I’ve stated I’m okay with some kind of Roon/HQP integration, and that seems like it’s in the works. Personally, I’m not opposed to system complexity if it serves a purpose, and I’ve been toiling away in the end-user computing vineyards for enough decades that while complexity doesn’t excite me all that much, it also doesn’t inspire terror or high anxiety. Looking around at a lot of other audiophiles in their 50s and up, though, I can see that a lot of these folks favor the KISS approach. (And as a Mac guy, I myself appreciate the beauty of a well-designed, intuitive interface.)
Also, I think i’s important to keep in mind that while Roon has a stunning UI/UX and does some things that are revolutionary, it’s still playback software. And as a fan, I want it to be best-in-class playback software.
As far as my system goes, it’s a work in progress, I put it together myself (with input from a few folks who know more than I do), and I think it sounds pretty good. If you want the details, you can find them here.
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I concur that the enjoyment of music is paramount. What determines (read elements) the equation for the enjoyment of music ultimately resolves with the SQ. With the advent of roon the finest UI/UX has arrived. Add EM (enjoyment of music) to the equation and nowithstanding the finest view is from the roon window, the complex equivalence for the finest sound (SQ) is soundly based on personal preference.
I own a license for all the players except JRMC (please don’t read anything into that). I prefer the SQ from Amarra Symphony with iRC (Dirac SE) over HQPlayer’s. Other member prefer HQP or Audirvana Plus V.2.X or…I doubt there’s a consensus which software player is the best to the exclusive of all others. But HQPlayer upsamples PCM and plays DSD natively better (best?) Amarra Symphony doesn’t. And no program provides all the elements/criteria we value for the time that roon accomplishes. If SQ trumps all other criteria, roon is not the equal of the other players. But roon in my opinion is “good enough” which is not a concession in my assessment. HQPlayer or Amarra Symphony or…if integratable without “issues” and discretionary would seem to be an advantage.
roon with Dirac Live (Full), IMO, improves the SQ and is better than without Dirac Live. roon with TIDAL is another advantage; and TIDAL HIFI provides better SQ than without HIFI. Recently, I have added Sonic Studio’s Amarra sQ+with iRC to roon and/or with roon with TIDAL HIFI, and this implementation improved on the SQ than without AsQ+. Of course, my assessment is intended as my own; and I would expect one to always check it out for themselves, or not at all, whatever one chooses.
Disclosure: I am a volunteer beta tester for Sonic Studio since 2011. I purchase every program I use and or beta test. How else to be trusted by Sonic Studio and the membership and maintain my integrity? I own licenses for Amarra For TIDAL and Amarra sQ+ and both applications work with iRC and work with TIDAL HIFI first time paid-for streaming subscription). AsQ+ works with roon. AsQ+ also provides me with 4-way Parametic EQ, pre-configured EQ AND iRC and when employed with roon those advantages affect roon’s SQ overall for better or worse. In my experience for the better even though as very good as roon’s SQ is without an additional application. I have had a bias against using EQ but lately, I have found it to be an advantage.
A better sound for roon could also include hardware tweaks as an incidental “application” that improves roon or HQPlayer, Amarra Audrivana Plus etc. Call it collateral improvement. Again all at one’s option to employ or not to. Visit other forums and the rage for UpTone Audio components, JS-2 LPS, the Regen signal integrity, impediance matching, MMK power supply for Mac Mini and fan controller regulator, AudioQuest’s JitterBug etc. all inure to the sound of roon and every other program unless one decides that is not so. I have added those “devices” and roon’s sound has been improved.
I am already at the decision point that roon is now the fulcrum for my application of choice as much as I love Amarra Symphony with iRC. At the very least, I have choices. But I am smitten by roon’s overall UI/UX/EM and with the addition of application/device tweaks, my decision to purchase a lifetime license was a stroke of good fortune. With roonSpeaker on deck sometime in the Future, cne might conclude that the sound will get better if only because it’s availability expands to include more scenarios and conveyances to bring the enjoyment of music to us.
The music’s the thing; the equipment seduces,
Richard
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@REShaman Thank you very much for the very detailed and thoughtful post!
[quote=“REShaman, post:72, topic:3621”]
Recently, I have added Sonic Studio’s Amarra sQ+with iRC to roon
[/quote] Could you please provide more details or provide a link to a discussion on how to integrate sQ+ with Roon? Is it possible to do it with the RoonServer?
Hello Juri,
I have no experience with roon server so my remarks are directed to roon’s present build and Amarra sQ+ ("AsQ+) and with iRC (impulse response correction) which is a Dirac SE program integrated with Sonic Studio programs but requires a separate license in the same way that Dirac Live requires.
So as not to double post at the roon community, allow me to refer you to my post at another thread, Roon and Amarra SQ/ 3.0 etc., Roon and Amarra SQ / 3.0 etc. You’ll find several steps, 7 in all, which should answer your question. Please understand that for the present, SRC (sample rate change) must be performed manually and presently there is no remote app for AsQ+. I know! What a pain! As a beta tester, I have a different perspective. Just allow me to leave it at that without further explanation. Sonic Studio would frown on my vague disclosure as vague as it is in any case so inquiries will not be responded to.
roon is marvelous. And I love that I can implement other applications in tandem that adds to this gorgeous UI/UX/EM synergy. I find myself addicted to roon these days. And each implementation adds to the exquisite UI/UX/EM, now with the rRA (roon remote app). I have no present need for the roon server. I will have need for the roonSpeaker; who won’t? (smile).
I hope roon Labs doesn’t mind my remarks about other applications at the roon community. If you have any problems, perhaps, a PM might be more appropriate. But it’s pretty straight forward. And shortly the pain will be relieved re SRC. iRC is already available. Dirac Live is not a workable solution with Sonic Studio applications but Dirac Live, which is also wonderful adds to roon’s SQ.
That’s it. Enjoy the music,
Richard
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@Go_Ga and @REShaman I just wanted to point out that Roon and RoonServer are identical except for the graphics requirements. What you can do with one in respects to sQ+ integration you can do with the other.
Hello Daniel,
Thank you for the clarification. Without direct experience with roonServer I would (could) not comment, as my only direct experience is with roon core.
Best,
Richard
I think that sQ+ should be used only on a computer that performs the actual sound output. If I use the RoonServer only to manage the library and then use Roon remote on another computer to access and play music from the RoonServer, the sQ+ should be installed on the control computer.
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That makes sense to me. I was only pointing out that Roon and RoonServer are the same program with only the video portion disabled on the “Server” version.
Yes, the audio chain always goes through the core, but only goes through a remote if a private zone on that remote is the output. When HQP integration arrives it will need a core that can handle the DSP requirements, which can be substantial. I am not sure what the requirements are for sQ+. This may be an issue for users who are using RoonServer to escape the spec requirements of a full Roon installation, although the requirements would seem to differ; DSP being assisted by multiple cores and maths processing (non Celeron) and full Roon having a graphics requirement. I would hope that it wouldn’t come as a surprise to people that an otherwise under-spec machine may not be capable of all implemented DSP.
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Hello andybob,
All excellent points especially the awareness that HQPlayer is demanding in process power to accomodate upsampling (more for downsampling from DSD) and native playback of DSD 128 - 512. Given that roon’s remote app demands certain iPad models to work, if and when HQPlayer is integrated or however the synergy will work, the demands will probably be even more demanding of resources and processing power. AsQ+ (http://www.sonicstudio.com/amarra/amarra_sqp) is nowhere as demanding and yet provides excellent and advanced EQ controls, 13 filters, 4-band full- parametric EQ with filters etc. AsQ+ is and will be much less demanding of resources compared to HQPlayer and will operate comfortably on many models.
I imagine roon Labs will allow for a flexibility for the integration or compatibility of other applications that augment what roon does so well that will inure to the UI/UX/EM. I have never experienced such a spirit for the development of this marvelous application. There’s no other model to compare roon to. It has already started to alter computer audio from what was. Perhaps, Audirvana Plus and JRMC are other examples, but I never upgraded my earlier build of Audirvana Plus.
I hope my Mac Mini is sufficiently powered for the iterations of roon that may come forward. If not, then I may have to conform to whatever those requirements will demand. I may have company…(smile).
Best,
Richard
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