A fix for Uncertified Roon Ready devices

Mine is OK. I checked it when I saw your posting.

Another consideration here is the notice period. Imagine someone who has just ordered a streamer with a one-month lead time on delivery, and it happens to be uncertified. I get that the manufacturers need to get things sorted at their end, but a more generous notice period would have been helpful (and reasonable?)

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@danny
Appreciate you guys doing this for a small minority of your customers.

Danny… good solution, however, I feel compelled to say that your initial post is abrasive. I don’t know if it is a language barrier on your end, but without customers there would not be a Roon. Even in your posted solution, your choice of words is abrasive. It’s all “me, me, me”. Even though we understand Roon is a business, and it should be profitable, your choice of words clearly places customers second. I’ve dealt with other Roon staff who have been lovely to deal with, but not in this case. As you appreciate customers who voice their concerns I hope you realize my post is not intended to be overly critical, but rather a push in a different direction for you which should reap long term benefits in being more respectful to your customers.

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Emailed Primare last night & it’s just reappeared!

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4 posts were merged into an existing topic: How do I know if I have an uncertified roon ready device?

2 posts were merged into an existing topic: Arcam SA30 Roon Ready support

Fully support the overall move but thank you for the compromise here, great solution for those of us that have purchased equipment that has been deceitful with their Roon Ready marketing.

I overdid the spice level on some fried chicken and a stomach ache is keeping me up but it sure was a bit soothing catching up on the two threads, the moment I opened the first thread I knew it’d be an epic saga and it didn’t disappoint so kudos to everyone for all the laughs.

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I want to say a huge congratulations to the full team at roon. This was handled very well and I’m impressed with the turn around time. Well done guys.

This is a big improvement over the original policy.
(Although, in an ideal world, I’d want the onus to be entirely on the companies not the end users.)

I bought a product that claimed to be Roon Ready before it was actually certified (the Matrix Element X). In fact, it worked fine with Roon (as far as I could tell). Once it became certified, the only change I noticed is that the little device icon started showing up. I still think the pink “Not Certified” banner ought to be enough of a “buyer beware” warning.

In any case, the Roon developers have a right to protect their brand and it is reassuring to know they listen to customer feedback in an effort to minimize collateral damage.

First thanks for finding the solution but I think some of the goals lack common sense and go entirely against the software industry experience:

Than in addition to what was posted before posted before:
“If an uncertified Roon Ready device has made itself seen by non-developers, they are a bad actor. There is no legitimate WIP outside their development teams. We do not allow public betas.”

That is, mildly speaking, very weird approach
I worked for years in IT with customers in FI helping them with early adoption of beta versions of software. Many more clients were managing their own adoption of beta software.
Of course this approach is common in personal computing. And that benefits both clients and developers.
I can assure that at the end of the day a company like miniDSP with beta support and real clients using the system in multiple setups, will have more stable and reliable software than some folks who went to the certification process with the total of six developers having any first hand experience with the software. So maybe paying more attention to how this actually works in the real world would be more helpful.

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Shipping a product with unfinished code is just not acceptable and I applaud Roon for finally acting on this. The vendors of the hardware should not be releasing unauthorized functionality regardless if it might work or not. Use it on test units you ship for testing not the consumer. This is how Naim did it and Roon came fully fledged on all devices and was added to previous versions via a firmware update.

I understand people’s frustrations but the line has to be drawn when manufacturers are abusing the system and are adding half baked features for selling point only. They would not do this to Google or Apple. I guess this should have been in place from the start and naively Roon must have thought vendors would be honest and more upfront. But sadly that has not been the case for sadly some of the big names.

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The phrase that Danny wrote was:

We do not allow public betas

[my emphasis]

Roon labs does alpha testing with a closed group of customers, and presumably beta-testing as well.

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While i fully back Roons decision to put a stop to manufacturers selling half-baked products under false pretentions to unsuspecting customers, i feel this should have been handled differently.
First of all, this could have been communicated to the community, users of “Uncertified” products and publicly a lot sooner than two weeks before.

And, there has been quite a lot of damage done to the trust relationship with Roon during a brief period. I am not even affected, and still my loyalty and trust with Roon has taken quite a hit.

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You are greatly mischaracterizing the commonness of public betas. They are pretty much only done by the largest of companies with millions of apps to support.

A better comparison would be to beta versions of protocol releases like Airplay, or Chromecast, where you’d be hard-pressed to find a public beta.

Even if you disagree with my take on the commonness of public betas, you can surely agree that private betas are far more common, especially when certification programs are involved. Many of these programs even involve NDAs.

We have paid attention to how this actually works in the real world. It’s very presumptuous for you to assume we haven’t. We have explicitly built something that avoids the techniques that result in a fragmented and inconsistent ecosystem (for example, UPnP) and instead have implemented a solution that modeled after far more successful protocols (Airplay/Airplay2/Chromecast) – not just monetary or popularity success, but the success of quality-of-experience and reliability of ecosystem.

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One thing I don’t understand is this:
Suppose a company slaps a “Roon Ready” label on its advertisements, or on the front-panel display screen whenever the device is switched to ethernet input with Roon enabled. Is that Roon Ready label, by itself, tantamount to claiming the device has passed certification?

I do welcome and appreciate your carefully voiced constructive criticism.

It’s tough because normally, insight into a company’s business process would not be made public… and because those insights are being publicly exposed by me, and not from a faceless corporation, there will surely be a tone of personally directed goals, solutions, etc… however, I am aware that words matter and I’ve taken action to attempt fixing this.

As for the abrasive nature of my tone, it’s generally true. I’ll be the first, and definitely not the last, to point out that abrasive is my middle name. I’m working on it though!

I’ve made some minor edits to the post at the top of this topic… I’ve changed the language to be less “our” and “we” and instead worked to focus on the situation at hand. No material changes have been made, but I hope it reads slightly better.

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if you see a product that says “HDMI” on it, do you assume it meets the HDMI certifications? I would say yes.

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It speaks volumes about your character to admit to this. It buys a lot of good will with me. Thanks

Ken

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8 posts were split to a new topic: Manufacturering audio devices in 2020