A legit discussion that shouldn't be ignored

This is totally reasonable and rational. And pretty standard for any software.

Appreciate your feedback Danny. Consider me illiterate when it comes to creating software. But I do know how to download and install it. Have a good many programs and an operating system, none of which require me to install the latest update in order to use it.

When I invested in a lifetime membership and a Nucleus last year, I did so based on the excellent experience I had with the version I was using at the time. Normally I do not update a program I am happy with unless I run across a bug that requires an update to fix. This option to me is even more necessary with a sophisticated piece of software like roon which requires a lot of tweaking of software and hardware in order meet my personal needs.

Also do not understand the ā€œ1-release-at-a-time due to app storesā€™ deployment models.ā€ I am constantly getting updates on my IOS and Android handheld devices via Apple and Android stores.

ā€¦and you have no option to go back to a previous version. These app stores only allow developers to have 1 version available for download at any given time.

So for software illiterates like me, I am gathering from your latest response that ā€œ1-releaseā€ means version, and the latest update is a new build, same version. Correct?

Even so, I still have the option on my handheld devices whether I want to upgrade or not. The apps work regardless unless the update fixes a bug I am personally experiencing.

Personally, I prefer to keep all my software, systems, apps, etc. updated with the latest versions. As far as I know, the updates are always solving problems I may or may not have experienced, or making improvements I may or may not care about. I just think itā€™s a better way to prevent larger problems down the road. I do understand any updates might introduce unexpected or unknown problems, but these always get resolved quickly.

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Fortunately I have not had any issues with the roon upgrades so far. Only missing the waveform feature and discovering a potential hardware issue after restarting my unit as Carl mentioned previously. But the ability to opt out or revert an upgrade seems to be an obvious means of reducing some of the complaints. Guess I do not understand why security seems to be the reason it cannot be done when no other program or operating system I have ever owned has had this issue.

I NEVER update my iOS or MacOS devices for several months (no Catalina here). My Android phone I update as soon as they are available - never any problem. Apple has no idea how to roll out OS updates - I refuse to be an unpaid alpha-tester for that shower.

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Unlike most other apps, Roonā€™s functionality is split between your local system(s) and Roon servers that connect to copyrighted material including streaming services like Qobuz, and metadata providers like Rovi. To protect that Ā© content, I imagine Roon is obliged to plug any security issues as soon as they are found (at least thatā€™s what I know from other similar software+services businesses Iā€™ve been involved in). Allowing users to revert to previous versions would defeat that.

In addition, because the local library is linked to various databases held on Roon servers, especially the metadata sources, any schema (structure) changes in the Roon server databases need corresponding software updates on the userā€™s Roon software. Reverting to an earlier version would break that totally.

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Totally agree that it makes absolutely no sense maintaining multiple versions.

Supporting old software is expensive and a pain for the support staff who have to try and remember what feature and faults were in each release.
If you support really old releases, as do say Microsoft if customers pay for extended support, you also risk losing staff who donā€™t want to be working on old crappy stuff.

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Every software I have used professionally or recreationally has bugs of some kind, and they fix some and introduce new ones all the time. This is software development, you canā€™t catch everything even in beta testing. Doesnā€™t matter how high profile you are or high end this stuff happens.

The app and firmware that controls my main audio system has had so many bad bugs introduced over the last 2.5 years I have lost count, some nearly blew my speakers several times and this system cost more than 15 years of subs to Roon.

Donā€™t get me started on the professional software I use everyday for work, its just so bad and of course support say they can t reproduce it, where it takes me 10secs of using it to exhibit it

Yup my day job is being the filling in the sandwich between the users of a collection of enterprise softwares (big players like IBM ETC) configured for specific use and the developers. Generally it goes - and in todayā€™s release they have fixed that thing, hmmm they seem to have broken those six things. Ho hum.

Exactly and this is software a lot more expensive per year than Roon.

That is why I suggested to have the ability to opt out of an update until a bug arises. In which case, my experience with tech support has always been met with the the obvious first question, ā€œDo you have the latest version and/or build installed?ā€ Support has always been reluctant to assist me otherwise. So there should not be any added inconvenience for support staff.

Developers donā€™t go out of their way to write bad software, if thereā€™s a problem, its either unique or unforeseenā€¦ in either case, the developer(s) will want to fix it asap. The user should always be on the latest version if he expects support.

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I supported IBM mainframe software for many years.

In that world, having the latest release was called ā€˜the bleeding edgeā€™.

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Hi @jb76, I agree ā€¦

Itā€™s possible to opt out ā€¦ though defer is probably a better term as at some point in time the webservices side of Roon will advance and may no longer be compatible with an older Roon install ā€¦ and of course if you ever contact support they (quite rightly) will always ask you to upgrade to current version first.

Roon --> Settings --> About --> Configure ā€¦

For the prudent or risk averse, I recommend holding off from a new Roon build for a couple of weeks in order for the dust to settle.

That said I run alpha Roon builds in my home (this is where Roon breaks first!) and over the years there only been a couple of builds that have stopped me playing music. Though one did attempt to delete my whole local audio libraryā€¦

Which brings me on to the topic of reverting, ā€¦ before installing a new build of Roon I always stop it, take a back of the Roon installation folder which include the application and the database. Then I perform the update.

This of course is in addition to daily scheduled Roon Database backup and period backup of my audio files (one onsite backup and one offsite backup).

I hope you get your Android device sorted, I canā€™t help with that one sorry ā€¦ itā€™s WIndows and iPad/iPhone here. I can only suggest starting a support topic for it.

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Something is wrong at Roon, but itā€™s not that they have bugs in the system (everything has bugs ā€¦ sorry, thatā€™s just life with a complex platform like Roon); nor is it that Roon requires a stable network to operate correctly (Iā€™ve posted a lot on that latter topic - again, thatā€™s just life).

The problem at Roon is one of product management, made very evident in the last release. Bowing to relentless pressure from the digital pitchforks and torches on this forum, Roon slid-in something on the new Recent Activity ā€œfeatureā€ update: vertical scrolling, but only for Recent Activity. For the albums view, et al., you are still scrolling horizontally. As a software developer, I know why they did what they didā€¦ as a UX designer, I am shaking my head.

One thing you quickly learn when you design products over multiple generations is this: end-users hate the drip-drip-drip of incremental updates to the user experience. The user experience is like a checking account: there are deposits and debits. When the user experience goes into the red (i.e. negative balance), users start blaming the platform for every issue - no mercy. When the UX is in the black (i.e. positive balance), people are forgiving and assume issues they encounter are (somehow) something they are doing wrong.

Roon desperately needs an outside set of eyes on the UX and a serious examination of their product roadmap. All of this falls into the arena of product management.

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That is good to know Carl. I have had the ā€œAsk before downloading any updatesā€ option checked. And I have always activated the latest update notification immediately upon receiving one. But I was not aware that I could ignore it since I have read several thread posts suggesting that they were either forced to upgrade or they received repetitious/annoying update notices. Thanks.

Not quite correct. the ā€žpiece-mealā€œ implementation of vertical scrolling already started before that. I fully agree that something like this is ideally done in one go as it makes the UI even more confusing and inconsistant than it already is until fully implemented.