A set of very specific questions

@Geoff_Mirelowitz I think you are all up to speed based on your last response. I only add a couple of other thoughts to consider:

  1. Roon will soon add MQA decoding capability and based on past performance I expect the feature will be as good or better than what you are getting from Amarra and the Tidal desktop app.

  2. I recommend waiting on getting an MQA-enabled DAC. Spend some time comparing how an MQA album sounds from Tidal or Amarra with how that same album sounds from Roon. The difference may not be that great for you. Much of the quality in MAA comes from the improved master which you can hear even if not decoded.

  3. I concur with others that you should set exclusive mode in Roon and Tidal—not because the apps depend on each other (they don’t) but because you will get the most out of each one if you do. One thing to watch out for is that while the exclusivity works on a “first come first serve” basis he software can sometimes conflict with other software and cause playback problems. I generally avoid having both the Tidal app and Roon up at the same time and if I do I don’t try to hit play I one if I intend to listen to music with the other.

I’m curious if after fixing your settings to exclusive in all the apps your DAC reports the correct bit rate. It really does seem like you were seeing the rate the Mac MIDI service was sending out.

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@erich6 I have fixed the exclusive settings across the board and I at first I thought was seeing the correct rate on my DAC. Part of the problem was I had been expecting to see a higher rate with MQA played through Roon. I was mistaken. Now I understand why I see one rate on MQA files played through Tidal or Amarra and another rate for those same MQA files played through Roon.

But…something is still wrong. I have a few Hi-Res files in my own (non-Tidal) library. They are NOT MQA recordings but they do have a higher rate of resolution. When played through Amarra my DAC shows that higher resolution. The same file played through Roon shows nothing higher than 48K. (When one music program is open the other is closed.)

To add even more confusion here is some more “information” that makes no sense.
@AndersVinberg I hope you will notice this because you say you have the same Geek Pulse DAC that I use. I have two Bill Evans files in my personal library. “Some Other Time The Lost Sessions from the Black Forest” is 192K. “Moonbeams” is 96K. Played through Roon, both show on my DAC at 48K. Played through Amarra both show on my DAC at 192K. Any thoughts?

I have a theory but it is very hard for me to prove. Somehow my Audio MIDI settings are still overriding my Roon settings. Even though I have gone so far as to deselect my Geek Pulse DAC in the Audio Midi settings and have chosen the Built In Output there so as to get the Audio MIDI settings further “out of the way” of the Roon choice of the Geek Pulse when Roon is open.

I’m beginning to think I need to get the Explorer DAC just to see if I have the same problems with that when it is connected to the iMac, as I do with the current Geek Pulse. (Oh BTW forget about asking LH Labs for any customer support on this issue. They never reply.)

Thanks again.

I don’t know what could cause this. I have never seen this, just tested it and it shows high rate PCM and DSD64. I currently have the Pulse connected through a MicroRendu, but I have used direct USB from Windows previously, with no problems.

I agree with you about LHLabs, I’ve given up on them.
But in this case I suspect the Mac…

EDIT

I connected it directly to Windows and it plays up to 352k and DSD128, I guess DSD64 was a MicroRendu limitation.

You can open the settings in Roon and verify that it sees the correct capabilities for the Pulse. USB devices report back to Roon what rates they support. This is what I see with a direct connection. If you see only 44 and 48k in green, that shows the problem, something in MacOS is interfering with the USB connection. If that shows 352, something is downsampling, could be DSP?

@AndersVinberg
Apologies! False alarm!! I have been doing so much switching back and forth of settings in so many different places that I somehow had the Roon Audio settings wrong. Now the Geek Pulse is full enabled and those two Hi-Res Evans files both play at the proper rate and display the proper rate, 192K for one and 96K for another.

SORRY! Thanks for your patience.

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Congratulations!

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5 posts were split to a new topic: How to set up an iPad as a Roon Endpoint

Thanks!

We need to know what you will be connecting it to in order to know.

The iPad is connected by a an Apple camera adapter, via USB to a Bel Canto 2.5 DAC. I’ve used that connection for months and it is completely reliable when I stream from the Tidal iPad application.

But unexpectedly I need to go out of town, so I may have to come back to this in a week or so.

Thanks again for all the help.

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The USB input on the Bel Canto 2.5 appears to be limited to 24 bit 96kHz, so you could specify those as maxima in the Device Setup, but otherwise it should just work without changing any of the defaults.

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Just following along as one on the learning curve also. Keep those questions coming. Know that after the “involved” setup, Roon is a marvelous product. Go ahead and spring for a lifetime membership. You know you want to! :grin:

I started out with iMac being keeper of the core, library, and remote. I have migrated to a ROCK and haven’t looked back. A very good solution IMHO.

@John_V apologies as somehow I never saw this. “iMac being keeper of the core, library, and remote” is exactly what I think I am trying to do. I have no idea what ROCK is.

I initiated another series of questions here on a new thread titled, “A question about hardware.”

ROCK (Roon Optimised Core Kit) is a stripped down version of the Linux operating system, dedicated to running RoonServer on an Intel NUC.

The idea is that users can buy a NUC, install ROCK, turn it on and have an appliance like Roon Core which requires no further messing about with computers.

Rock is the Roon server chunk put on a dedicated mini-computer called a NUC.

This isn’t absolutely necessary. But over time, Roon performance may start to decline as your library grows, your zones expand, and you use Roon’s upsampling features.

But the all-in-one scheme will work fine for now.

@John_V

I wish that had turned out to be true.

I have posted my experience with the 218 here

But long story short:
Connected 218 via an Apple Express (to allow for a hard wired ethernet connection as I can NOT run an ethernet wire from my Wi-Fi system hardware to the room with my main stereo). The sound was lovely. But it frequently cut out and either the Meridian or the Roon Core (my iMac in another room) had to be rebooted. Over a four hour listening period this happened 8-10 times. Sometimes I got uninterrupted play for a full album or so. Other times the music stopped after a much shorter period of time.

I do NOT believe the problem is with my home network for the following reasons:

For months I have streamed Tidal via an iPad connected to my Bel Canto DAC in my second room. No hardwired connection of any kind to the Wi-Fi. An Apple camera/USB connection between the iPad and the DAC. No problems.

Whenever the music cut out yesterday using the Meridian 218, the green light on the Apple Express remained lit. Other Wi-Fi devices were NOT affected.

Thoughts?

Geoff, sorry it hasn’t worked yet. I’m a “brute force” troubleshooter, but you would be better served by someone who can isolate the problem more logically than I.

That said, the signal isn’t being “sent well” or isn’t being “received well” or, heaven forbid, a combo. One thing to try. Disable DSP and see if there is improvement.

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@John_V Thanks!

I have disabled DSP on my Roon Core (my iMac) for the zone that the Meridian 218 is in. The zone that is served by my Meridian Explorer DAC has not had this problem and still shows DSP enabled. So far so good. Playing without interruption through the 218 for now. But…it will take some time to test if this is a long-term fix or not.

I know nothing about DSP. Could I be making some use of it in the zone where it doesn’t seem to be doing any damage (where my Explorer is)? What – if anything – do I lose by disabling it in Roon’s control of the Meridian 218?

Depends on what you use DSP for. What it shows in the DSP panel.

But as a first approximation, you don’t lose anything serious. Roon was a great product before DSP was added, we all lived happily.

One guess: if your DSP is set to do serious upsampling, it would increase the demands on WiFi. Upsampling in Roon is a luxury, not necessary,

@AndersVinberg thanks.

I was not using DSP for anything – that I was aware of. I never even noticed the setting before.

I have used “upsampling” when I used the Amarra software. I never heard any appreciable improvement in the sound.

Well, briefly, DSP attempts to improve SQ by using “several” manipulations. If this is on, and particularly on in several zones, it can create CPU overhead that can interrupt the music.

Your setup at present may not be able to take advantage of the manipulations, but you can test the SQ with it on and off. Don’t turn it on until your system is stable, you have a sense of what it is, and you’re willing to experiment. Some people actually regard it as a fun exercise!

Hope it stays good for you.

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@support

Apologies but for the life of me I cannot figure out how to open a new topic (even though I have done so in the past).

This is only tangentially related to the original issues I raised here, so by all means if this is now the wrong place for this question, please advise me where and how to ask it.

I am listening to many of the Tidal MQA files. In my Tidal account (in other words NOT in Roon but in Tidal itself) I have gone through and made sure that where an MQA album exists, that version is the ONLY one in my personal Tidal library. I did that to insure that when I looked for that album in Roon the only version that would come up in my Tidal library is the MQA version.

But that does not seem to work, For example when I search for Keith Jarrett/Charlie Haden performing either “Jasmine” or “Last Dance” (albums NOT tracks) two versions of each album are shown in Roon. And because Roon does not distinguish which are MQA and which are not (very annoying!) the only way I can tell is to play each version and check. When I am trying to load an all MQA queue, that is not very practical.

Why can’t I see ONLY the Tidal albums that I have selected as part of my own Tidal library?

Thanks.

If you add the album to your Library, by favoriting, the album added does not show up under Tidal Library anymore it shows as part of Your Library. “Last Dance” for example, has 3 versions available, 2 of which are MQA. So if you added the 192kHz version to your library and then searched for that album, you would see the one you added/favorited under Your Library, and the two you did not under the Tidal Library.

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