The Dragonfly Red does MQA , I need a firmware update to do it
It also throws in a 60 Roon trial, or did when I bought mine.
Other big plus is it runs the iPad output via the a Camera Kit
Big FAN
Mike
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Today I installed Roon on my iMac. 3381 albums and 41332 tracks were installed. That seems to include both the music on my hard drives and the music in my Tidal account (which I have logged in to through Roon). Both types of files seem to play fine through my DAC and into the stereo setup in the room my iMac is in.
I remain pretty well lost regarding whatever other setup is needed. Assumed I needed to âConfigure OS Devicesâ if I hope to use my iPad as a Roon end point in another room. No luck and a quick search suggests this option is for something in the future (ROCK?).
Audio settings are equally confusing. Iâve dragged and dropped a screen shot. Hope others can see it.
When I first entered Audio Settings, âSystem Outputâ had already populated the âZone Name.â Seeing my other choices, I enabled my Geek Pulse (my DAC attached to the iMac). As you can see the Zone for that device remains unnamed. I never found any instructions for setting up zones. Equally confusing, even before I enabled my Geek Pulse, Roon was already playing music through it. Because of course my iMac is setup to send the music output through that device already.
So what do I do next? Are these Audio settings Iâve posted correct? Does the zone for the Geek Pulse need to be ânamedâ? Was it unnecessary to enable the Geek Pulse through Roon and should I âdisableâ it here because it is already chosen on my iMac?
Most importantâŚhow do I configure my iPad to be a Roon endpoint in my other room, so that I can play MQA files through my two channel stereo in the other room? (As discussed in the thread earlier.)
AndâŚnow that I think about it, how do I choose a Master/MQA file from Tidal through Roon even in the room Iâm starting out in, with the Mac? It just occurred to me that my library as setup by Roon does not seem to designate an album as Master/MQA to begin with?
For example, I am now playing Diana Krallâs âTurn Up the Quiet.â I donât own that disc so I know I am playing the Tidal version. But on the Tidal app on my Mac, it clearly shows more than one version of that album and one of them is clearly designated MQA. Not so through Roon. Only one version of that album is offered. When I play it, Roon shows a small blue dot to the right of the track/album name (where Roon shows what track is playing). Does that tell me it is a Master/MQA file? No kHz or bit numbers are displayed.
More confusing: My DAC shows the Krall file playing at 176.4K. PRIOR to installing Roon, when I played this Krall album through the Tidal app, the app showed a âMasterâ file was being played and my DAC showed 96K (or possibly 88.2) for this album. Now, when played through the Tidal app (NOT Roon â I just switched back and forth to check) Tidal shows it is a Master file, but my DAC still shows 176.4K as it did when Roon was playing the Tidal file.
Needless to say I am confused. The music sounds fine and the ease and information offered by Roon is wonderful. ButâŚI was hoping to get that iPad set up as a Roon endpoint in the other room so I could â somehow, I confess I donât really understand how yet â play Master/MQA files from Tidal through Roon on the system in the other room.
Many thanks to anyone who can help. I hope staying on this thread is OK. If I should repost this as a new topic, please let me know and Iâll do that.
I recommend you name the Geek Pulse zone and use that as a default in Roon. This will allow Roon to use your DAC exclusively instead of an OS-managed service which means Roon can output bitperfect signal to it (will sound better).
Tidal canât output more than one MQA unfold so I donât know why your DAC is showing the higher rate. Try restarting the computer and donât open Roon and see if you get the same thing from Tidal. May need to power cycle your DAC alsoâŚ
In Roon there is no visual way to tell if it is an MQA album until you begin playing a track. You should be able to click on the dot next to the track name and see a description of the signal path and that will tell you itâs MQA.
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Have you installed the Roon Remote app on your iPad ?
The Roon Knowledge Base will help reduce the learning curve. This page is about Setting up Audio Zones.
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Thanks for the replies! Starting from the bottom up. No, I had not installed Roon Remote. I never heard that app mentioned before so I did not know I needed it. Now I have.
Thanks for the link to the page I need. Here is the way I have things set up now:
I assume next I need to go to âDevice Setupâ in the settings for the Geek Pulse zone. Are there any clear instructions somewhere in the Knowledge Base to guide me through that?
I appreciate that:
Blockquote
The Roon Knowledge Base will help reduce the learning curve.
ButâŚfor someone as inexperienced as me the Knowledge Base is so large that it is overwhelming. I have little idea of where â or how â to search for the information I need. Your designation of the net page I needed was very helpful and allowed me to get this far. But how do I find the next steps. And, if I donât understand something can I come back here â to this thread â to keep asking questions? Or should I be doing that some other way.
erich6 your point about the MQA files is helpful but confusing. It seems so strange that the albums that are Masters are not designated. If there is more than one version of the same album available, can one only use a process of elimination or trial and error? With all the other things that Roon does to make things easier, why is this so non-intuitive? But at least now I know to click on the dot. What do the different colors of the dot signify?
Again many thanks.
Click on the gear icon and youâll be taken to the Device Setup tabs. The page I linked steps through the various options. You may not need to change anything other than to enable Exclusive and Integer modes.
Roon has a âsparkleâ animation that will lead you to various elements on pages and explain what they do. There are also scattered tooltip information icons that assist.
The User Guide is a good place to start reading. Donât try to digest it all at once. Small chunks while listening to music is fine
I would definitely encourage you to play with the Focus tools and discover their functionality. You canât break anything doing that so click on everything and see what it does.
Absolutely but you can also start another thread about a particular issue if you prefer. Youâll get a wider audience with a new thread, but the folks who have posted in this thread will see new posts in it.
Itâs because MQA is not implemented yet. I expect the code to detect and handle MQA files was proprietary and so not implemented pending commercial agreement with MQA which has now occurred. Until implemented there is an element of trial and error in identifying Tidal MQA albums and it can be a pain. Creating an MQA tag is one way to enable easy access to MQA albums once added to your library.
This thread and csv list is a list of Tidal MQA albums that is regularly updated.
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Thanks for the suggestions. Iâve been at this for several hours so Iâm going to quit and give it another try tomorrow. I appreciate coming back to the same place where I know there are a few folks who are willing to help me. But if it seems like a separate, new thread would be better, perhaps Iâll try that depending on the questions that come up.
I did follow erichâs advice (including cycling day, restarting iMac, etc.) and did some testing of what information is offered about the resolution of the files. Itâs confusing but Iâll try to summarize.
Prior to today, when I played music through the Tidal app the DAC showed 44.1kHz UNLESS I played a Master file. Then it showed 88.2 or 96.
Now when I play through the Tidal app (with Roon OFF) the DAC shows whatever the setting is in Audio MIDI Setup on my iMac. There is no setting for âautomaticâ so I have to choose a setting. I really donât know what was chosen in the past. I never noticed because the DAC showed 44.1K on most files, unless I played a Master. Now i realize I have to set the rate manually and the DAC shows whatever rate I set, regardless of the source. Because when I choose a Master file the Tidal app confirms it is playing in with âMasterâ quality. When I switch to a non-MQA file Tidal shows it is playing in âHi-Fiâ quality. But the DAC just shows whatever Audio MIDI is set at. So a Master file wills how 44.1K on the DAC if thatâs whatâs chosen in Audio Midi (and 96K even if the file is NOT MQA but 96 is chosen in Audio MIDI).
Yet in Roon Audio settings I have now enabled ONLY the Geek Pulse DAC and NOT âSystem Output.â So why should Audi MIDI override the DAC at all?
To make matters more confusing, if I turn off Roon AND the Tidal App and use Amarra 4 Luxe (which supports MQA) then both Amarra AND the DAC show the correct resolution for each file that is played.
I appreciate the link to the list of MQA titles but it doesnât solve the problem Iâm having. Let me explain: I search for Duke Ellington and John Coltrane in Tidal via Roon. I know already there is an MQA version of this recording. But three versions of the recording are shown. I played each one and checked Roon for information as a file from each version played. Two showed they were MQA files (one at 96K and one at 192K) while a third was non-MQA at 44.1K. In this case, on my DAC it showed 96K for all three. My point is that knowing there is an MQA version of an album is of limited help. If Tidal â via Roon â offers three versions of that album, only trial and error tells me which one is the MQA version. ~sigh~
Iâm not a Mac user, but I believe enabling exclusive mode in Device Setup for your DAC will bypass Audio MIDI.
Sadly this is the situation at present. With the weather gauge and a stout breeze it should change for the better âsoonâ.
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You can, however, easily identify and favourite MQA albums in the Tidal app and they will become part of your Roon library when Roon and Tidal next synchronise (every day or so).
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Blockquote
Iâm not a Mac user, but I believe enabling exclusive mode in Device Setup for your DAC will bypass Audio MIDI.
My problem is I see no obvious place for âDevice Setupâ on my Mac. There is no such option in Audio Midi. In âSoundâ under System Preferences when my DAC is selected it reads: âThe selected device has no output controls.â Not sure what that means butâŚthe Geek Pulse DAC does have a volume control and I am using that to control the volume on music played through the DAC.
Any thoughts on a thread where I could ask for more help from other Mac users?
Thanks!
To clarify there IS a way to enable âExclusive Modeâ on my DAC within my Tidal settings.
If I do that will it carry over into how Tidal plays through Roon?
Device setup is accessed by clicking on the gear icon to the right of the zone name in Audio Settings. In Device Setup, there are 3 tabs. Exclusive mode is toggled in the Playback tab. Apologies for the lack of screenshots, let me know if you still canât find it and Iâll get some pics up when I get home. Youâre getting there!
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Nope, thatâs just for output via the Tidal desktop app.
So I do it through Roon, not through my Mac? Does Roon override my Tidal settings or do I need to enable âExclusive Modeâ through Tidal and Roon?
Thanks!!!
It is meant âDevice Setupâ in the Roon app, the gear pictogram and not âDevice setupâ in preferences of the Mac. âExclusive modeâ means the used, i.e. active software program accesses the hardware (your DAQ) exclusively and does not allow other software to use it at the same time. It is based on first come, first serve basis. When you run the Tidal app with exclusive mode Roon has no access until you close Tidal. Same with Roon. In case the DAQ is set in Roon exclusive it will not anymore be operated by the MacOs but by Roon.
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A fundamental misunderstanding here.
When Roon is playing Tidal content, it does not use the Tidal app, it doesnât care if the Tidal app is installed.
When you make a setting in Roon, with the âgearâ icon, it controls how Roon plays. Has no effect on Tidal.
When you make a setting in Tidal, it has no effect on Roon.
When Roon uses Tidal, that refers to the cloud service, not the app.
In Roon (and maybe in Tidal too?) you should set Exclusive mode to make certain that the Mac audio system doesnât have an effect on playback, it is famously bad.
Once you have done that, Roon will play with the correct sample rate for each track.
THAT SAID, today Roon is not able to decode MQA. It will send MQA to the DAC and if the DAC is capable of decoding MQA, everything works. If it is not, then MQA will be sent as 44 or 48k.
The reason Roon canât show which Tidal albums are MQA is that Tidal doesnât make that information available. Once you play an MQA album from Tidal, Roon recognizes it as MQA and can tell you.
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@AndersVinberg Thank you very much.
This was my original understanding:
When Roon is playing Tidal content, it does not use the Tidal app, it doesnât care if the Tidal app is installed.
I was just double checking to make sure that the Tidal settings had no effect.
But I notice that even you suggest:
In Roon (and maybe in Tidal too?) you should set Exclusive mode to make certain that the Mac audio system doesnât have an effect on playback, it is famously bad.
In any eventâŚsomehow I have gotten all the way to this point without a clear understanding of this:
THAT SAID, today Roon is not able to decode MQA. It will send MQA to the DAC and if the DAC is capable of decoding MQA, everything works. If it is not, then MQA will be sent as 44 or 48k.
I would not have started a Roon membership had I understood that. Because I am on a Mac (an iMac â not a mobile device) I am able to play MQA quality music through my Tidal app. My DAC can not render the MQA signal sent by my desktop Tidal app, but I do get the benefit of the âfirst unfoldâ that Tidalâs Mac desktop software does offer. I have been using that for some time with no trouble. I can also obtain MQA playback through my Amarra 4 Luxe software and my current DAC. Again, I am just getting the decoding offered by Amarra though not any rendering from the DAC.
So where that leaves me is, now that Iâve initiated my Roon trial period, I might as well buy an inexpensive DAC that can render MQA, to see how that sounds with Roon.
What remains to be seen is this: If I get an MQA rendering DAC (such as the Meridian Explorer 2) and use it in conjunction with my iMac. Will I get Master/MQA quality files from my iPad once it is configured as a Roon endpoint?
BTW:
The reason Roon canât show which Tidal albums are MQA is that Tidal doesnât make that information available.
I donât think that is entirely true. On my iMac desktop Tidal app every Master/MQA title is clearly marked. When I turn off Tidal and play music through Amarra 4 Luxe all Master/MQA files are also clearly designated before I play them.
Perhaps whenever Roon actually offers the MQA compatibility that MQA announced at CES, Roon is planning to offer, these problems will be solved.
Do you think I have a clear understanding now?
Again many thanks!
Yes, many people have gotten the Explorer and are happy with it.
I actually have a Geek Pulse like you, plus a Meridian system that is MQA capable.
My personal reaction is that the benefits I get from MQA are much smaller than what I get from Roon, such as music discovery and room correction and networking.
I just wrote in a different thread: I would encourage you to explore the relationships. An example: I was listening to Vijay Iyerâs band, and I thought, this is a great bassist, what is his name (Credits), do I have anything else by him (click on his name), yes a few albums with other bands, what else has he done that I donât have (click on Tidal albums), anything else (click on the web symbol, find his site or Bandcamp for downloads); on this new album there is a great singer, who is that (click), what else has she done, oh wow they did an album of Stevie Wonder songs with just vocal, bass and sax, what other versions of those songs do I have, interesting comparisons. And so I can spend an entire weekend finding new music.
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@Geoff_Mirelowitz I think you are all up to speed based on your last response. I only add a couple of other thoughts to consider:
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Roon will soon add MQA decoding capability and based on past performance I expect the feature will be as good or better than what you are getting from Amarra and the Tidal desktop app.
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I recommend waiting on getting an MQA-enabled DAC. Spend some time comparing how an MQA album sounds from Tidal or Amarra with how that same album sounds from Roon. The difference may not be that great for you. Much of the quality in MAA comes from the improved master which you can hear even if not decoded.
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I concur with others that you should set exclusive mode in Roon and Tidalânot because the apps depend on each other (they donât) but because you will get the most out of each one if you do. One thing to watch out for is that while the exclusivity works on a âfirst come first serveâ basis he software can sometimes conflict with other software and cause playback problems. I generally avoid having both the Tidal app and Roon up at the same time and if I do I donât try to hit play I one if I intend to listen to music with the other.
Iâm curious if after fixing your settings to exclusive in all the apps your DAC reports the correct bit rate. It really does seem like you were seeing the rate the Mac MIDI service was sending out.
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@erich6 I have fixed the exclusive settings across the board and I at first I thought was seeing the correct rate on my DAC. Part of the problem was I had been expecting to see a higher rate with MQA played through Roon. I was mistaken. Now I understand why I see one rate on MQA files played through Tidal or Amarra and another rate for those same MQA files played through Roon.
ButâŚsomething is still wrong. I have a few Hi-Res files in my own (non-Tidal) library. They are NOT MQA recordings but they do have a higher rate of resolution. When played through Amarra my DAC shows that higher resolution. The same file played through Roon shows nothing higher than 48K. (When one music program is open the other is closed.)
To add even more confusion here is some more âinformationâ that makes no sense.
@AndersVinberg I hope you will notice this because you say you have the same Geek Pulse DAC that I use. I have two Bill Evans files in my personal library. âSome Other Time The Lost Sessions from the Black Forestâ is 192K. âMoonbeamsâ is 96K. Played through Roon, both show on my DAC at 48K. Played through Amarra both show on my DAC at 192K. Any thoughts?
I have a theory but it is very hard for me to prove. Somehow my Audio MIDI settings are still overriding my Roon settings. Even though I have gone so far as to deselect my Geek Pulse DAC in the Audio Midi settings and have chosen the Built In Output there so as to get the Audio MIDI settings further âout of the wayâ of the Roon choice of the Geek Pulse when Roon is open.
Iâm beginning to think I need to get the Explorer DAC just to see if I have the same problems with that when it is connected to the iMac, as I do with the current Geek Pulse. (Oh BTW forget about asking LH Labs for any customer support on this issue. They never reply.)
Thanks again.