Roon version 1.3 Build 218
Mac OS 10.12.4
2012 Retina MacBook Pro, Memory 16 GB
Music stored on Synology 1813+, connected by ethernet cable (runs through a switch)
I’m not sure if you need more information for this. My problem is that every time I add files – and I do this often because I am in the process of digitizing my LP collection – Roon loses many of my files and rescans. For example – last night I added some files. I do this via itunes on a separate computer. All was well, but this morning half of my albums were missing and Roon was rescanning. Instead of waiting I restored from a backup.
I am currently evaluating Roon and I am leaning toward purchasing it, but I will not buy expensive software that I have to restore daily.
Can you please help?
Hi @ronfint ----- Thank you for report and my apologies for the troubles here.
To help me better evaluate this issue you are reporting to us, may I kindly ask you to please provide me with the following:
Can you please briefly outline your network configuration/topology as well as providing insight into any networking hardware you are implementing.
Please provide a screenshot of your “storage” tab found under settings, in Roon.
Looking forward to your feedback!
My MacBook Pro (containing the Roon core) is connected via ethernet cable to a Netgear switch. This is connected to my Synology NAS also by ethernet cable.That’s about it – the rest of my system is not having any problems with Roon.(But in case it matters, the switch is connected to an Apple AirPort Extreme.)
By the way, Roon will not update in real time on this setup. I either have to force a rescan or shut down Roon and restart.
Here is the storage tab:
Does Roon produce some kind of log that I could copy and send you?
I’m looking forward to your feedback as well!
Hi @ronfint ---- Thank you for the follow up and taking the time to answer my questions. Both are appreciated!
Moving forward, can you please verify the following for me:
Please provide the make and model Netgear switch that is being used in your setup.
Can you confirm if jumbo frames are disabled on the Synology NAS.
In your initial report to us you mentioned the following:
I do this via itunes on a separate computer. All was well, but this morning half of my albums were missing and Roon was rescanning.
The watch folder you have mounted in ROON, is this same location that is being accessed by your itunes library? If you are indeed using Roon + iTunes together, can you confirm if your iTunes XML is in the same location as the media or is it in a separate location?
Thanks, Here are the answers to your questions.
- Netgear GS108Tv2
- I see no mention of Jumbo Frames in my iPv4 configuration. I assume it is disabled.
- The iTunes library is on a different computer, not on the NAS or the computer that contains the Roon core.
The NAS is mounted via smb. I should probably also mention that it is connected to the switch in a bond using link aggregation.
Last night I added 8 more 24/192 albums that I digitized, but the problem did not reoccur, and all is still well.
Ok – This just happened again. I think the loss of data was triggered by my running ChronoSync to back up my NAS.
Hi @ronfint ----- Thank you for the feedback. A few things are jumping out at me right off the bat. I am going to break my suggestions down into two parts, addressing the switch and configuration you are using (i.e link aggregation).
The first being the switch you are implementing (Netgear GS108Tv2), if I am not mistaken this is a managed switch, correct?
I would confirm that JUMBO frames are NOT active on this switch as you have already confirmed that they are not active on the NAS.
We have seen issues in the past with managed switches causing issues in networ configurations. I would try enabling flow control, as it has helped others in the past. More information on what flow control is can be found here.
Second, is that you are using the switch in a bond via link aggregation.
I would consider, temporarily of course, testing without using the link aggregation.
Furthermore, and this has more so to do with the NAS, can you confirm that you are using an SMB 3 mount.
Lastly, you mentioned the following:
“Last night I added 8 more 24/192 albums that I digitized, but the problem did not reoccur, and all is still well.”
Was anything done differently or reconfigured to help yield a different result here or were things the same as they have been? Just trying to understand what was different that time around.
I can’t currently get access to my switch since the password is failing. I need to contact Netgear. Until I get that fixed, I can make no changes to the switch.
What I will try in the meantime is to close roon and dimount my NAS from the Roon Core computer each time I back up my NAS.
OK, I got into my switch. Jumbo frames were disabled. I did enable flow control. However, I did not change link aggregation as that would take some time. If problems persist, I will do that. Also, I am connected via smb 3.02.
I think that turning off everything Roon related when I use ChronoSync to back up my NAS may be a fix. At least I know that I ran into problems today right after a backup. So I guess that I’ll see where that leads.
Thanks for your help.
By the way, is real time updating of the Roon library unavailable for smb?
Generally speaking, real-time watching over SMB is less reliable than with local drives. We’ve done a lot of work on this issue, but what we’ve seen over and over again is that most NAS devices don’t reliably report changes to Roon, which obviously would be a requirement for this work properly.
While we’re still largely at the mercy of how often the NAS reports changes back to us, we’ve made a lot of improvements here, and we are working on some short term and long term changes to make this consistently perform even better. Some of the underlying issues were discussed in greater detail here.
To be clear what you’re describing here sounds a lot worse than what we’ve heard since the recent changes. I suspect something about the way your network is configured is exacerbating this problem, but @Eric will work with you to make sure we figure out exactly what that is.
Is there a way to disable real time watching of folders and only rescan when either ‘Force Scan’ is selected or Roon core is restarted?
My uneducated guess is that all my Roon related problems come from Roon trying to update while changes are being made to my NAS.
Today I added files to the NAS, but before doing so, I shut down the Roon core and also the computer it resides on. After files were added to my NAS, I reopened Roon core, and everything was peachy – Roon scanned my NAS drive, found the new files, and lost nothing.
So, I think this is what I need to do, and that is why I asked above if it is possible to disable realtime watching.
I reported these issues about two weeks ago, and I followed your instructions, but I still have major problems with Roon losing files whenever changes are made to my Synology NAS. (My Roon core is a MacBook Pro, connected by ethernet.)
I always lose files when
- Adding files to my NAS
- Backing up my NAS using ChronoSync.
My — I hope temporary — solution is to completely shut down my Roon core computer when I am engaged in either of the above two activities. This works, but a better solution would be to have the ability to turn off realtime updating of Roon.
Can this be done? Is there a better option?
Roon --> Settings --> Storage --> --> Disable.
Roon --> Settings --> Storage --> --> Enable.
Roon --> Settings --> Storage --> --> Rescan.
I guess you and @Eric did not make any further progress on this.
Thanks very much. I’ll try the technique you suggest and report back in a few days.
Hey @ronfint – we are considering adding configurable rescan timing to a future release, but I don’t have a firm timeline right now.
In the meantime, what you’re experiencing does sound less stable than I’d expect, as I mentioned before. Sorry for the lack of follow up here.
Can you tell us what options you have selected in Synology DSM > Control Panel > File Services > SMB tab > Advanced Settings?
Can you also confirm you’ve tested without link aggregation? It would be a good data point to know if that had any effect.
Thanks. Here are the settings you requested:
Maximum SMB protocol: SMB3
Minimum SMB protocol: SMB1
SMB range: SMB1, SMB2, SMB2 and Large MTU, SMB3
Transport encryption mode: Disable
Enable Opportunistic Locking (checked)
Enable SMB2 lease (checked)
Nothing else checked or filled in.
I never did disable link aggregation because of the PIA factor.
By the way, rather than configurable rescan timing, I’d prefer the option of turning it off altogether and rescanning manually.