Another disappointed lifetime subscriber trying to be patient

Tracey,

I am an Apple Consultant and the first thing I can tell you is that Apple networking products have been deprecated for several years. The first thing I would do is ditch the Airport. Even though you stated that you tried it on Ethernet, it is not conclusive that the bottleneck is not the Airport.

Secondly, you have a Synology so why don’t you run the Roon server on the Synology and take out the extra “hop”.

I have been successfully using a Synology Server for Roon as well as storing my library on the same NAS. As for wireless, I use and recommend to all my residential clients Eero which is amazing when properly installed.

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Mark,
It wasn’t supplied by Cox, I bought it. You are right, it doesn’t have a router - the Airport Express is the router.

Jerry, thanks for your helpful response. My Synology is a few years old and doesn’t have the processing power to run Roon server natively (DS1512+). I am aware that the Apple hardware is beyond end-of-life, but testing and measurements indicate that it continues to perform better than many contemporary routers. New is not always better, even in technology. In any case, the throughput and bandwidth are more than adequate to handle the demands from Roon. Wireless connections are always to be suspected, but in this case the problem persists even with fully hardwired connections. I have tried replacing ethernet cables and switches to the extent that I can. The in-wall cable is a CAT 6e home run to the main Cisco switch that tests out good.

All things are possible, but I do not think this is a hardware or network related problem. Nothing else on the network is having issues. I believe it stems from the recent compatibility problems between Roon and Tidal that have been reported on this forum by many in the last few months.

Hi @tLea,

I’ve given our latest update on this issue here:

While the behavior has been improved (you can retry instead of log in), we aren’t able to completely resolve issues that are stemming from environmental slowness.

As we note in our Networking Guide, we recommend against Apple networking products. It’s hard to say if that is the exact cause of the issue here, but it’s definitely a possibility. It’s also possible that the switch, particularly if it is managed, is playing into things as well. I’d recommend starting with adjusting your network configuration and let us know if there is any change!

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Tracey,

Understood. However, if you hired me for the job I would have you let go of the deprecated, older technology of the Airport system from Apple. There is no badge of courage, carrying the torch for this product and I can tell you that it is underperforming, regardless of whether it solves your issue.

That would be my first place to start. You have a lot more dollars at stake. It’s like clients of mine who endlessly discuss whether they should upgrade their iCloud storage and then end up paying more in consulting time to discuss the mater. Like they said in Frozen, Let It Go.

I have my occasional issues with Tidal, Qobuz and Roon but for the most part, the technology works. I have updated, modern equipment that didn’t cost me an arm and a leg - i.e. I use a Raspberry Pie and a Khadas Tome Biard. Definitely not high end. All is good and very few connectivity issues.

Amen! Right on, Dylan.

As others have said, common issues that users come up against can often be traced to networking problems, such as the use of Apple networking products and managed switches. I would certainly start with replacing the Airport Extreme - I have used a Synology RT2600AC router for the last 18 months it has great wifi range, has excellent software, and it performs flawlessly. Highly recommended. NAS and Roon core are connected to it by ethernet. If your switch is managed, you can pick up something like a Netgear GS108 for a song. I would also use reserved IP addresses for your NAS and Roon core. Another general recommendation is to not attach the Roon core direct to to a DAC - rather use some sort of bridging device - although there are lots of users who do this without issue.

Also, you can remote access your Mac mini from your MacBook using screen sharing rather than running up and down stairs. Another thing to try would be to use a full Roon install on the core rather than Roon Server - this is how mine is set up and it works just fine all the time.

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Thanks for the useful advice. The Cisco switches are not managed, so that’s off the table. Also, the NAS and server Mini already have static IPs. Yes, I’m aware that I can access the headless Mini from the MB Air using Screen Share but not from the iPad or iPhone, which are my usual controllers. Ditching Roon Server for the full version is probably what I’ll try next, but that doesn’t give me much confidence: I am using Roon Server in exactly the way it was designed to be used. If Server doesn’t work as intended, Roon should retire it.

Clearly I’m going to have to experiment with a replacement for the Apple router. That will be disruptive, as my wifi and multi-room sound mesh is based on Airport Express devices and my system backups use AE Time Machines. Everything else works flawlessly and Roon did too until recently. Frankly it may not be worth reconfiguring my entire LAN just to suit Roon.

Question: You recommend using a “bridging device” between server and DAC. What does that mean? Are you talking about a digital to digital converter? Seems unnecessary.

Thanks again.

Sorry if I wasn’t clear - some sort of network music player that will act as a Roon ready endpoint. These normally take an ethernet connection from the Core and turn it into a signal (analog or digital depending on design) that can go to your DAC or amp. Often this is via USB, but if they have a buildi in DAC it can be analog). Currently your Mac mini is both core and endpoint - not always the best idea. Some examples would be a Sonore ultraRendu (ethernet -> USB), Cambridge Audio CXN v2 (streaming DAC) and streamers or streaming DACs from the Lumin range. Can also be something as simple as a Raspberry pi.

I’m no network engineer, but my understanding is that reserved IP addresses are preferred over static in such a setting.

More than likely the Airport. I run a Mac mini for ROON and one I ditched the AirPort Extreme ROON has run well without exception.

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I ditched the Apple network products a few years ago and it solved a bunch of problems.

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27 posts were split to a new topic: Discussion about Apple networking gear

A post was split to a new topic: Where can I get phone support

Thanks for the clarification, but I’m still a bit fuzzy on some of your points. Yes, I am having this problem when I use the DAC connected by USB to the Mini running the server (Core) as an endpoint, but I’m having the same problem using every other endpoint on the network. I’ve tried four others, some wireless and some hardwired. Following your suggestion, I just now tried to start Roon after switching off the power to the DAC and got the same disfunctional result.

Regarding setting up a range of reserved IPs, I don’t see how that could matter. You still have to assign static IPs to devices from within the range, which I have already done. Those static IPs are “reserved” in the sense that they are not available for dynamic assignment by DHCP.

Not trying to be argumentative here. I understand you are trying to help, but to implement your recommendations I need to fully understand them.

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Hi @tLea — I split off some off-topic discussions about Apple networking gear and move them into a new thread.

As mentioned above, this definitely seems to be related to the performance of the network, but we are continuing to investigate what more we can do to alleviate these symptoms for customers who are facing these issues with TIDAL login. We’ll be sure to keep you updated as we continue to investigate!

Hi Tracy, if you ever wanted to do screen share from your iPad of iPhone, you can use an app called VNC Viewer. it’s will see your Mac Mini screen share via bonjour and you can use your iPad to control your Mini.

Your Tidal account can only be logged in too 3 devices with a hifi account, unless you have a family account? un-log from tidal from all sources that you use. If you get the immediate error message, that is usually the issue.
2. I recently put my old apple time capsule at the back of the house and set up to extend the signal, My media room Mac mini is always on logging into the service provider router, The rear of the house on the Apple. If you have any extenders etc in the house you will get the log in issue and poor signal with dropouts.

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