Any user running a Lumin U1 into an Esoteric N-05?

Audio Gear Talk Lumin
21

To my ears, the Lumins sound very nice, slightly towards the warmer side of the spectrum. I have heard U1 Mini in my home, and X1 and S1 in a friends two systems. The T2 only at dealers sadly.
In my experience, the sounds made at the analogue ends will in some way reflect whats coming out the digital outputs. And i suppose the reversed scenario would be true also.
I’m sure @wklie is better than me at describing their repective strengths though! :slight_smile:

Anyway, what i’m babbling about is that i actually think the Esoteric is a really nice streaming DAC with more of the sonic traits you described earlier, than what a Lumin will offer? Are you sure your grudges are with the streamer/DAC end of your setup?
Age may come into question in this fast moving lane, but a well built DAC is a well built DAC and will sound just as good even if the heir is at the doorstep.
Give us an idea of the rest of your setup?
Just for the fun of sharing experiences, not telling anyone which direction to head off! :slight_smile:

22

Hi Mikael,

OK so here goes. Direction be damned!! lol :slight_smile:

Pass Labs INT-250 (AQ tornado high current power cable)
AudioQuest Robin Hood Combo speaker cables
Gershman R1 speakers
Siltech 330i XLR from N-05 to INT-250
N-05 of course (AQ tornado source power cable)
REL T7x sub

GIK acoustic panels at first reflection points

Room is 12 feet wide by 35 feet long, 7.5 feet high. I have about half of that space for my set up. Room is multipurpose.

I appreciate your comments about the N-05.

Gershman also offer an upgrade service on the speakers to bring them up to current spec of the Grande Avant Garde. It is very cost effective, and essentially I end up with the latest and the greatest at half the price of new. And that is including the original purchase price of the R1s. Pretty sweet deal.

I have also been trying different streaming apps; roon, audirvana, Esoteric of course, and Tidal connect. Not to mention trying oversampling to DSD on the N-05.

My journey so far.

Cheers

2 Likes
23

In the N-05, please experiment with the PCMF setting, especially try changing it from OFF to FIR1 for sharpness.

Do not upsample to DSD.

If you like MQA sound style, try SDLY2.

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24

A lovely system, i’m sure! :slight_smile: I have never heard the Gershmans, but your system certainly seems well thought out and the amp is a great piece of equipment.
Appreciate the tips from Peter also. If you are upsampling to DSD, this comes across (to my ears) as a “smoothing” effect, even though i like it a lot with my DAC’s.
Still, there are many ways to push the audio towards one’s ideals, and a change of DAC may very well serve it’s purpose.

25

I think the T2 is the sweet spot in the Lumin range if you have a good level amp so I would do away with everything else. I don’t think anyone would be disappointed with the sound quality from its XLR outputs into your preferred receptacle, beating a lot of integrated amps with built in streaming. Sure if you have Gryphon, Boulder, or that level amps probably an X1 is for you, but T2 is the best investment for us mere mortals. And the MQA implementation is wonderful in the T2.

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Thank you Peter, Mikael and Rockhound.

Thoughts…
Mikael, if you think the N-05 has a good dac, then your thoughts on adding the U1 as a streamer via USB.
Conversely, is there a huge / minor negative if the digital out from the N-05 is only 192kHz and I was to add an external DAC?

Rockport, I hear you. For the T2, I could a) use it as a streamer (see above question to Mikael) and keep the N-05, or b) buy the T2 at a great price and get an external DAC only when I sell the N-05

Costs from lowest to highest are; T2 (a great deal), DAC (depends on final decision), U1 (also a great deal and huge future benefit with external DAC).

In the mean time I will try your suggestions Peter.

Thank you all.

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192kHz is generally fine unless you play DSD music (N-05 does not output DoP over coaxial) or buy 352.8kHz PCM albums.

28

Thanks Peter,

I only have a few that may fit into those categories. Minimal impact. Wow, a plus !

Cheers

29

I agree Peter.

The N-05 is a good unit, and choosing an appropriate filter might be just what the OP needs.

I have a K-01X and the filters do make a demonstrable difference.

30

…is a kick in the pants!! lol

Yes, I should be happy with what I have. On the upside, the U1 has been sold, so that is out of the equation. The price on the T2 has dropped significantly and is tempting. If it doesn’t work out, I can probably re-sell and no loss. Unless lumin comes out with a replacement in the next month!

I will bring this to a conclusion soon. Took me less time to read War and Peace, and that is on me.

Lots of things to consider and what works best for me (bank).

I do appreciate all the input, thoughts, comments, and tech help.

Cheers

1 Like
31

An interesting thing is that on their newer models, they removed the PCM filter selection.

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https://www.audioshark.org/lumin-169/lumin-retail-20520.html

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Hi Peter,

Sorry, I wasn’t clear. The T2 is a used unit.

Thanks

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I wouldn’t expect sonical differences of any significant grade. You may of course like the added functionality and the choice of running Lumin app as control. But to be honest i have only heard the N-05 at my local dealer. And i didn’t do any useful comparisons with it as a separate DAC and none at all using it as streamer only. :frowning:

My dealer has sold the unit and is now sporting an N-05XD in his demo stack. I do think both sound lovely and Esoteric for sure knows their stuff when it come to sound quality.
My takeaway is that while the Lumin T2 is a very nice machine also, you won’t gain sound quality. you would be moving “horizontally” and end up with redundant functionality.
I’m not saying this is a bad thing, but i’d keep my expectations for major sound changes nice and low. :slight_smile:
No, i’d snoop around for a streamer/dac that meets my a) demands of functionality and b) pushes the right buttons of my desires and then c) arrange for a home demo.

35

Thank you Mikael,

Words of wisdom. Yes, a sideways move would not be a good thing. Too bad I wasn’t building a second system, as I could jump on the T2 at a low used price.

Of note, the local Esoteric dealer had some information about the N-05XD now arriving, AND (my uppercase) information to follow about an upgrade path. I will be giving the dealer a call today to learn more.

Cheers

1 Like
36

Don’t be so hard on yourself Bryan! :wink:

I’ve ‘gone through’ countless DAC’s and streamers in the last ten-years. Thankfully, I now have a system that is ‘final’. But sometimes it just takes time to get the right fit/synergy in a system. It’s all part of the fun :grinning:

37

Thanks Martin !!!

But what if it is my wife doing the kick in the pants!

I noticed your quote marks around ‘final’. That is fully understood.

All comments in good fun.

I will get there. Something I am going to explore further is additional acoustic treatment too. Not to get off track on the initial intent of my post.

Have a great day!

Bryan

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38

Hi all,

An update for those that are interested. I do I owe some members of this community my thanks for their time and constructive input. For that I am grateful, and feel that you deserve an update.

I believe one member perhaps aptly captured my conundrum as wanting to sharpen leading edges. My concern was my Esoteric N-05 and if it was up to the task.

Since that time, a couple of things have taken place to help me address/resolve that concern. Or maybe it was an itch…

Firstly, I confirmed with Esoteric North America that there is no manufacturer upgrade path to the N-05XD.The Esoteric responder ending by saying that I should enjoy my N-05 for years to come. Perhaps for shadowing what was to unfold.

I did receive a very competitive quote from my local Esoteric dealer for a new N-05XD. Which included a fair value trade in for my N-05. However, the cost, after tax, was still a significant dollar amount. Way more than I was comfortable with. When you play with the big boys… . Funds perhaps best redirected elsewhere in the system? See more about that below.

I also wondered if my streamer and or DAC were up to the task of doing what I was after. In particular if the RCA digital out of 192 kHz was a clean enough stream to feed an external DAC effectively.

I have an audiophile friend several provinces away, who, upon hearing my dilemma said that he would ship me a DAC to try out. I will include the make and model, though not to provoke debate about if this was or was not the right DAC to try out. After all, this is part of the journey. Though my feet are getting sore. Thus, a while ago I had the opportunity to try the denafrips Ares 2 with the digital out from the N-05.

But before I received the DAC I added a used pair of Fidelium speaker cables and jumpers to my system. Replacing cables that cost almost three times as much, on the used market!

Wow. That removed a veil and moved me much much closer to the sound that I, and my ears, are after. Or to put it another way, I am NOW very happy with the Pass INT-250, Esoteric N-05, and Gershman R1 speakers. The Fideliums moved everything to a new level. Though I must say, my system can now be brutal on poor recordings. Sorry, I am trying not to turn this into a Fidelium review, just that changes were significant enough for me to say yes, that is so close to my goal.

Once my ears were comfortable with my “new” system, I added the external DAC to the mix.

Would I get to another level?

From my ears I concluded two things. That the streamer functionality of the N-05 is up to task. That the DAC of the N-05 is up to the task. Yes, there were differences. Nuances. Nothing that would compel me to either sell the N-05 or pursue an external DAC. Especially if it meant a significant dollar investment for an unknown outcome. Though I will include the usual audiophile caveat of “at this time”. :slight_smile:

Plot twist. Gershman have an upgrade program that would bring those R1 speakers up to the current and well reviewed and regarded Gershman Grand Avant Garde model. The upgrade is half the cost of what it would have taken to get the new N-05XD. Not a bad thing at all. A win win. Or it could mean I may be in the market for new speakers. Did I hear a groan or two?? lol Do I already have models in mind. Yes. But don’t worry. That is a different story for a different day for a different thread.

In conclusion…

Thank you and MERRY CHRISTMAS to all!

Cheers,
Bryan

2 Likes
39

Please do the PCMF (filter) setting test I mentioned.

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40

Hi Peter,

Yes, I have been doing that too. Challenging for my old ears to discern differences. Sometimes it takes a particular track for that “ah ha” moment.

Cheers.