I’m having problems with the new Bridge II software released this past Friday. Not problems installing. That was easy. I’m having sonic problems. Specifically the first few seconds of most MQA tracks - as long as it’s the first track I play - has skips, drop outs, and/or pops. Anyone else having this problem?
I know it’s note RedCloud, as I dropped back to Yale, and the problem persisted. And I know it’s not a Tidal issue, because it’ll do it on locally stored MQA encoded FLAC files too. I can’t say that I KNOW it’s not Roon without checking other vendor’s hardware forums to confirm they are not having similar problems. For now, I wanted to start with the PS Audio Roon folks.
Anyone else hearing this? It’s quite reproducible for me.
In fact, so people can try it, please allow me to suggest a perfect example of it.
In the Tidal Masters albums is the album Tomorrow is My Turn by Riannon Giddens. On that album, the third song - Waterboy - begins with Riannon singing the word “waterboy”, but she stretches it out for 5 or 6 second, singing it loud and slow. But if I start playing music with that song, I don’t get the usual “WaaaaaateeerBoooyyy”. I get “_____ateeerBoooyyy”. Every time.
Interestingly if you start “Play from here” on the album’s 2nd song instead, you’ll get problems in the first few seconds of the second song, but when that track finishes and play moves on to Waterboy, the first word will sound just fine. Again, every time.
Would love it if someone else with the new Bridge II software and RedCloud could try it.
Ok so here is my result. If I just pick Waterboy (Track 3) and start it I hear the same thing you do. The very beginning of the track seems to be cut off. So I played it again this time by playing Track 2 first and letting the music naturally flow into Track 3 it plays just fine. I have a DS Sr and am running RedCloud and the new Bridge II software. Hope this help. Did it not do this prior to the updates?
And while I’m not surprised, it’s good to know that you are seeing this on a Senior also. And no, it did not do this prior to the updates. Prior to RedCloud, playing any MQA tracks thru Roon just played like normal PCM. With none of those sonic artifacts.
Now that you know what to listen for, and how to reproduce it, I’ll wager - just like myself - you’ll find this happens on lots of MQA tracks. But if you want more clear examples… there’s Candy-O from the Cars album of the same name, or Donald Fegan’s IGY from his album The Nightfly. But those are songs that it is relabily reproduceable on for me. But it’ll do it on most MQA tracks that I play. But not all, and not all the time.
Now, I’ve got to see if I can eliminate this as a Roon problem before bringing it up to PSA.
What I don’t understand is why the boards are not lighting up with this problem. Seems like everyone should be hearing it.
Just popping in here to say that I see the same issue with that Rhiannon Giddens track on my DirectStream Sr running Red Cloud and the new Bridge II firmware. I would guess that it’s an issue with the MQA implementation on the Bridge II. FWIW, I’ve never heard this track before, but the non-MQA version of this track sounds considerably better than the MQA version to me. To my ear, there’s some kind of artifacting that messes with the soundstage and timbre of the MQA version.
Allan - I agree 100% with your assessment. It’s one case where - IMO - MQA is not an improvement.
And at this point, I’m almost certain it’s a Bridge II issue. But First have to gather a bit more evidence that it’s not a Roon problem. I’m pretty sure it’s not a Tidal issue either, because it has happened on local MQA files that I’ve played. The only thing gives me concern is that it does not do it nearly as consistently with local files.
Thanks @Newbits. I’ve spent some time with a different DAC manufacturer over the last 24 hours, and that brand is having no such problems. So this is almost certainly not a Roon thing, but an issue with the Bridge II update.
So I started a thread over at PSA to let them know about the problem. Here’s a link. But to this point, PSA’s had it in front of them most of the day, but have not replied. Lots of views. No responses.
I posted because I wanted to get it “on the record”, with salient facts included. With that out of the way, nothing would make me happier than for PSA/Roonies to light up the PSA phone lines. I find this sonic glitch a serious degradation to my listening pleasure, and would like to see PSA make it right.
This is particularly the case knowing that other vendors have been able to deploy the same RAAT changes without this problem. Did they even do listening testing?
The more calls the better. Will call myself tomorrow.
I don’t think I’ve put the upgrade up. I don’t recall a prompting in the time frame quoted. Will check. I’m not a Tidal subscriber, my library is all local lossless on a FreeNAS 11 server. Given that it is network music that is being funky, I’ll relate the following story that may promote some thought.
I found something interesting with the earlier version that you may be experiencing. At the time 3 switches and my WiFi router were involved. The Roon server and Roon bridge were in different racks, each having its own rack top switch. The core switch was connecting the two. The WiFi/Router combo was connected to another rack top switch that also served my iMac and off to the core.
While playing music using Roon, any time I touched a Facebook page, Apple News, or FlipBoard, there would be a pause in Roon as these iPad apps babbled with their server. I have no idea why it was happening.
I made a topology change to introduce a Ubiquity EdgeRouter Light and move the WiFI to access point only mode now on ETH2 of the router. Core is on ETH1. Each port has its own class C network and DHCP. The router is using the switching fabric to exchange traffic between the 3 ports. The CPU is not involved directly in routing once the route is determined. The iPad touch fades stopped. Suspect your network first and look for correlation with use of net-greedy Apps on WiFi nodes. Depending on the specific gear and topology my WiFI use was affecting carriage on the hard.
David, I loved your post. Networking is black magic to many and as I read posts on this forum I can’t help but think that many of the issues I read about are network related in some way. I was struggling with a network problem just yesterday when a device on my network decided to park in a spot and use an address that was already being used by something else. I know that’s not supposed to happen with DHCP but there it was. I use Fing to sort out address issues. I highly recommend it to everyone as it really helps sort out IP address issues.
I have Fing here and use it to keep an eye on the on air segment. The latest network changes were to move the access point onto its own port on the router and its own network. Since most WiFI traffic is to the outside, this keeps it away from the AV traffic on the Ethernet.
I’ve been moving from Netgear to Ubiquity Networks gear for home. Ubiquity is a major supplier of WiFi and wireless back-haul in great favor with local networking contractors. The system hardware and firmware are rock solid. The management interface gives a detailed look at what is happening on each segment.
The Ubiquity Networks stuff can control access by MAC address and moochers are easily spotted and blocked (not had that problem). No need for Fing Box ARP flooding to block a moocher.
Although intended for professional use, the management interface is browsed from the internal ports and is layered in a way that supports simple SOHO self-deployment with the deeper capabilities on other UI tabs or tackled in the command interface on the console.
The product is also designed for management by a contractor off-site for business clients and the 1%.
When it comes time to retire the Netgear Orbi AP, I will replace it with Ubiquity in-wall access points in the lounge and probably my study. A couple should cover the house. These are designed for offices and especially motels and dorms. They give WiFi, POE for a phone, and Ethernet for a local computer. One Unify AC Pro access point serves a typical 3000 ft sq residence.
Ubiquity also offers a mesh AP but it is still a bit young and colicky.
Great story David. Thanks. But this does not appear to be network. I say that because I’ve not seen one instance of someone trying to reproduce this, that cannot reproduce this. It appears that everyone who tries, can. And now that includes PS Audio too. So if this is a network issue, everyone that has tried to reproduce this work have to have messed up network. And I doubt thats the case.
@scolley i had probably the same (or similar) issue with previous Bridge2 code and Huron - e.g. not MQA files, by any FLAC file - be it local or Tidal.
As my bridge is currently RMA i can’t confirm if it persist or not with latest firmware.
Please check this thread:
From my troubleshooting it seemed like Bridge2 is somehow overloaded (buffers full or something like that) and not accepting further data. Unfortunately I do not have any update from Roon folks…
@maniac thanks for that post. I think this is evidence that there appear to be multiple gremlins lurking in the Bridge II firmware. Since PSA has acknowledged this problem now, and put in a request to their firmware vendor to fix it, I made sure to bring up another gremlin lurking in that Bridge II code. Specifically that crackle you hear now when queued music moves from playing PCM to DSD, or DSD to PCM. Either way, it crackles at the transition point.
Lots of gremlins around the beginning of tracks. Thanks for the post.
Disappointing. Got the Bridge ii yesterday, and having the same problem with the beginning of tracks being cut off. Intermittent, I’m not sure yet what is the pattern, I’ll test more over the weekend.
However, what I can say:
– Was connected from ROCK server to DSD via USB before, and not once had the problem.
– Prior setups (LMS and KEF LS50w) never experience any network-related problem. I have very little traffic on my network and a dedicated high quality Ethernet switch, so confident it’s not network. In any case, why would network cause cut off of just the start of a track…? Nope.
So, pretty clearly a bridge ii problem. Not ROON, not network. Is there any official word from PSA support on this?