I didn’t read much of the above because there is too much mis-information.
First, I don’t know how you can compare the sound quality of Apple Music and Tidal without talking about MQA. MQA, by definition, includes sonic differences that some people prefer and some don’t. But, I’ll leave it at that.
Apple Lossless uses ALAC which is Lossless and is not AAC. Although, ALAC can be directly transcoded to AAC making the encoding of ALAC to AAC possible “on the fly”.
However, when comparing Apple Music to Tidal you should be comparing the Lossless tiers. So really, it’s a matter of: ALAC (PCM) vs MQA (PCM with extra MQA stuff)
ALAC is just packed PCM. It’s like FLAC.
MQA is its own thing.
The other thing to note is that MQA, to get to the highest resolution, requires hardware. ALAC, being simply a container for the PCM, is already at the highest resolution. Make sure you’re comparing like bit-depth / resolutions. If you don’t have MQA hardware this may not be possible.
My DAC is separate from my streamer. It wouldn’t know if the data is being received via AirPlay.
My streamer is an InnuOS Zen and uses an AirPlay plugin on LMS (Logitech Media Server) software. Any idea what would be happening with that?
Apple’s website states 16/44.1 via AirPlay (I ASSUMED this was ALAC as they refer to it as Lossless). It also says 24/48 Lossless when referring to the Apple TV 4K. Are you saying that they state this online but actually the files are lossy AAC and not ALAC?
Either way, this album sounds much better on Apple Music when compared with Tidal HiFi or MQA. AAC or ALAC. I have no idea about Qobuz, but that platform is irrelevant to me as all the rest of the functionality is lacking when it comes to my personal use.
This is confusing as you start to look into the world of containers and CODECs.
A DAC must be presented with a bitstream it understands. DACs are hardware “clocked” and therefore can only accept a limited number of resolutions. Those limited resolutions are 44.1 and 48. All audio must be a multiple of one of those resolutions for a DAC that supports both. Some DACs only support 44.1 and some support only 48.
OK… so what does this mean for CODECs and containers?
Well… Something like MP3 takes a PCM bitstream and starts throwing things away to make that bitstream smaller. This is the “lossy” part of MP3 being a lossy CODEC. What it decides to throw away is complicated so I’ll skip that part. Once that stuff is thrown away you are left a MP3 container holding the MP3 “compressed”, or COded, audio. When you “decompress”, or DECOde, the MP3 you decode it back to 44.1 so the DAC can understand it. It’s just the PCM input is not the PCM output even if they are both 44.1. The difference between the two is in what MP3 threw away as part of the COdeing process. That’s the role of the CODEC. Same for AAC.
Now, if you have a PCM bitstream and you want to compress it in a lossless way you simply compress the bits much like a zip file. A lossless CODEC simply reduces the number of 1s and 0s that need to be stored. Those extra 1s and 0s (think replacing 100 0’s of silence with something like 0x100) are then restored when you decompress the file (it can read 0x100 and just put back the 100 0’s). The PCM input bitstream matches the output bitstream in this case because it’s lossless. The other benefit is that most containers allow for nice things like metadata to be added to the file. But the input bitstream resolution (44.1 for example) is still the same input and output.
MQA is its own thing. I won’t go into it here.
EDIT to add details of Airplay…
Airplay supports 2 formats: 16/44.1 and 16/48.
If you use Airplay all sources are up / downsampled to one of these 2 rates depending on the endpoint you’re sending to. This is not a “lossless” process unless the thing you’re streaming is already 16/44.1 or 16/48 and matches the destination. For the vast majority of audio content which is “CD quality” 16/44.1 this will be lossless. If you listen to a “high resolution” track on Apple Music or elsewhere which is > 44.1 then it gets resampled down to 16/44.1 or 16/48 in which case Airplay becomes “lossy”.
There are a couple labels which only send Qobuz MQA so in those cases you get the MQA from Qobuz. But they try to avoid it. Otherwise, yes, it’s FLAC.
MQA or Tidal Hifi. Neither of them sound as good as the AM version of this track by some considerable margin. The Album is a 2021 release and there is no remaster so I am wondering why? This is the premise of the post.
This IS interesting. I always assumed ALAC was streamed when using AirPlay and/or a tethered USB connection to a DAC. So I was wrong about that?
I am not at all interested in MQA when it comes to this comparison, just what sounds best between Apple Lossless or AAC and Tidal HiFi.
MQA is it’s own thing and it also doesn’t sound as good with this particular track. I have not bothered trying to listen to this track “properly” with MQA. I ignore MQA these days unless it’s via Radio Paradise on a BlueSound node. For some reason, it sounds better to me than their FLAC stream (but for me this is an exception).
If you’re Airplaying to the Innuos then it’s likely using legacy Airplay unless they have updated the plugin. It uses unofficial Shairplay2 like most non licensed AirPlay devices. I think the latest now supports AirPlay 2 but would not know what version they use and it obviously doesn’t tell you what the actual stream is only the decoded PCM to the DAC.
Van Morrison’s: “Latest Record Project Vol 1.” The title track, track 1.
So in AM this track is hi-res but Roon indicates the file is 44.1 FLAC on Tidal, if you paid the extra it would be a master, so I don’t think you’re comparing like for like?
If I volume level it, it seems to sound the same, but I’m not currently using my best day and amp.
Personally if I’m comparing two things I try and find a background detail, a snare drum, cymbal etc, something that’s low in volume that adds to the track, and I see if both systems are able to match that detail.
I’ve been streaming both Apple Music Lossless and Tidal HiFi Plus for a long time. I find the sound quality to be pretty much identical when comparing matching masters on a system that can play both services at their maximum quality.
Please don’t take offense at this, but have you double-checked that you don’t have any DSP running on Apple Music? I’ve more than once had someone claim AP sounded different/better only to find out later that they accidentally had EQ running. Because Apple buries their DSP in various places within the Settings app it’s easy to forget something was turned on days, weeks, or months later.
All the opinions and information about bit rates, lossless vs. lossy, AAC/ALAC, compression, up/down sampling, lossless or lossy AirPlay etc. is appreciated and I have enjoyed the various insights. I have learned quite a bit. But at the end of the day what reaches our ears is most important. I appreciate that what sounds good is often personal preference. But I can hear more realism in vocals and pick out more detail with AM on this one, no matter what processing is going on.
For me, my system is plenty good enough. It sounds fantastic and I have no intention of changing any components for the foreseeable. So the source of streamed content is what I am most concerned with and the revelation than AM may sound better than Tidal is unsettling me.
I am most interested to know if anyone else can hear a difference with this track when streamed from AM vs. Tidal HiFi, and which sounds better to them. Either AM ALAC and/or AAC is better quality than Tidal HiFi (lossless), or Tidal has a duff version of the Album and others from their content provider. Or it’s something else, but I can hear better vocals, separation, percussion and more on AM.
OK, I tried out the Van Morrison song. The setup I used is Mac Studio > RME ADI-2 DAC fs > Sennheiser HD800S. I compared the Apple Music 24/96, and the Tidal FLAC 24/48/MQA 96 on Roon with the core decoder turned on. Obviously not blind, and with relatively slow switching, I hear no difference. If I was to set up a true fast switching AB test I suppose I might be able to pick out some minute difference, but I’m not even sure of that. Maybe I’m just deaf (lol), but I can’t hear a meaningful difference here.
Thanks! The only difference is that I am using iOS devices and not my Mac.
I was listening to the full track on each service rather than switching back and forth, but either way I can hear the difference on AirPod Pro and Max headphones and via my Audio system.
It’s interesting that he explains why one is better than the other, but doesn’t actually mention listening and comparing both carefully in a controlled manner. There is a lot of (understandable) bias against MQA, but in the few well-documented, well-designed blind tests comparing MQA to hi-res FLAC, it was found that there are virtually no audible differences. If there are detectable differences, they almost have to be different masters.
All that said, I say listen to whatever increases your listening enjoyment!
Just a note regarding LUFS. If the AM track is louder (mastered to a higher LUFS), then it is more compressed, which would explain why you’re hearing more of the subtle details even after volume matching. I would be surprised if the masters are in fact different, but it’s possible.