I do not think Roon should casually assert that a small number of devices will be affected by the April 20th release. They are bumping the requirements SIGNIFICANTLY as it relates to supported macOS versions.
I also think they buried the lead a bit on this. Burying a deprecation notice of hardware this significant in the newsletter and on the forum is definitely poor form. If they are claiming small numbers because they have data on our hardware, then they should have sent targeted messages to the affected customers.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with my hardware. My Mac Mini is more than capable of running a Roon Server, albeit on older macOS versions. (it cannot run Monterey or newer)
If I need to buy new hardware to continue running a Roon Server, this is likely the end of the road. The math of buying new hardware along with ongoing subscription cost for something that is essentially just a music catalog is likely too much of a reach for me. I do not see that Roon is adding enough value to justify new hardware, now that every device I use supports streaming from my service of choice.
There was a time when Roon provided significant value. The reality is that most of what its functionality can now be done with less fuss. Roon Arc is still unusable for me, so I end up using provider app in my cars anyway. Recently, a friend asked me, what are three killer functions on Roon that you can do, that I cannot using the streaming app from a provider. I was unable to list three, that could not already be handled.
If I had a large repository of local music files, this would be an entirely different conversation.
The good news is that I can simply disable Roon updates as they indicated and migrate to using an alternative before the expiration of my current Roon subscription as a test.
Perhaps this should be a thank you letter. Thank you Roon for providing the forcing function to save on an annual subscription!
Though maybe it’s not worth the effort if you can’t think of 3 Roon features that are important to you and streaming apps don’t have, and something else will make you happier. Enjoy the music anyway
I appreciate the pointer. I don’t think I have the energy to deal with that.
I don’t see it as moving to the streaming app as making me happier, I was perfectly happy with Roon. It’s just that Roon has increased my friction to use their product, to the point where it is a valid question for me. It is a standard economic decision of a rational consumer.
Apple stopped supporting Monterey in September 2024. This is more of an Apple thing than a Roon thing.
Apple has a long history of asking developers to support only more recent operating system releases, in contrast to Microsoft’s approach to make old software work forever. Apple’s approach has its own very real advantages, including enhanced OS reliability; things like ensuring apps can take full advantage of their newest OS features, very fast and power efficient hardware; and security updates that otherwise become more difficult retrofit on older operating system versions. You can read a bit more about this sort of thing in this neat recent article from an old well-known Microsoft employee:
There is also the possibility that you will be able to use the (forthcoming) officially supported Docker image to run Roon server on older Macs. See Mac | Docker Docs
So far they have only mentioned Docker for Linux-based OSes and I didn’t know that you can run Linux Docker containers on Mac, but now I found out and in hindsight it’s obvious.
I guess this will be the best option for many, though only to replace Roon Servers.
Of course there are a lot of possibilities, including Roon supporting a reasonable option for running the server on older Mac hardware. I could list more options, but this a product from a company that expects a pretty steep annual subscription. They should solve the problem.
None of these options listed are officially supported. That means any problems or challenges, they automatically raise that flag.
I’m only trying to list options, I can’t make Roon’s decisions and I am not super interested in arguing about it. It’s complicated and I understand that you’re annoyed, but you also have to accept that old hardware with old commercial OSes isn’t going to be supported forever. It’s part of the game that every Mac and Windows user inherently accepts, and it’s the same with all software, not just Roon. I mean, the whole problem exists only because Apple doesn’t support this macOS below v12 (edit: and actually below v14) anymore and Microsoft doesn’t produce a tested .NET v10 for it. (Though there is a version that runs, but perhaps Roon has additional constraints).
The Linux and probably Docker options ARE supported for Roon servers on Mac, and one can choose to use Rock or Nucleus. For endpoints there are cheap Roon Ready options or RPis with Roon Bridge, too.
And I suppose the number of people who run hardware so old for interactive GUI tasks that Monterey is the last available option is probably not that big, but anyway Roon must consider if everyone else should suffer for these people’s benefit.
@Suedkiez where have you seen that running the Roon Server Docker container on macOS is an officially supported configuration? I did not see that stated in the post. The only reference to supporting Docker was on Linux. If they have stated somewhere that the Docker container is explicitly supported on macOS, I stand down.
Assuming it is not officially supported, I would be more likely to replace the macOS on the older Mac Mini with Ubuntu Server, than to run an unsupported Roon Server Docker Container on macOS. I have spent far too many hours, in my professional life, debugging subtle issues that arise from the double virtualization problem of mismatched host and guest container operating systems. (e.g. running a Docker container on macOS requires an embedded virtual machine that then virtualizes the container)
I mentioned previously about not being able to come up with three key features that Roon has over a standard streaming application. I only came up with two in that conversation: Listen Later and Genres. Genres as a first class citizen in Roon is one of its most compelling features to me. It isn’t just that it has Genres, but it is the depth; it has Sub-Genre upon Sub-Genre, and each is an exploration unto itself. It is a primary way I navigate music with Roon. If I invest the time or money to migrate how I run the Roon Server to accommodate the new requirements, that is the hook that likely keeps me.
I said „probably“. They haven’t stated it, but I expect/hope they will - at least in the sense that if it runs and makes noise on your machine, we won’t ignore your unrelated Roon bug reports.
mjw
(Father! Father! Resist not! Let us destroy the core! Set us free!)
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One of the changes (at least) is the result of a security vulnerability, and this concerns a binary in the OS – which isn’t being updated because Apple no longer supports Montery.
You have a number of options, it’s just that running natively is not one of them.
I agree with your statement about older Apple hardware (iphone, ipad, imac, mac mini, macbook, etc, etc) being more than capable of running newer software.
Assuming it is not officially supported, I would be more likely to replace the macOS on the older Mac Mini with Ubuntu Server, than to run an unsupported Roon Server Docker Container on macOS.
Apart from the decisions you’re making about Roon on Apple hardware, have you considered OpenCore Legacy Patcher? @Suedkiez shared a link above to another post where he mentions it. I bring it up again because it’s relatively low cost in effort and the return is high with the ability to run current software on aging hardware that it still very capable.
I use it and found it to be mostly flawless with my hardware over the past 4 years. The current limitation is Mac OS Tahoe doesn’t work, and it remains to be seen if it ever will.
Copy/pasting for easy reading in case you’re interested.
I’m not sure if we will or will not officially support docker on macOS and can’t speak to that. Having said that, the image shouldn’t have anything in it that’d require it to be run only on a Linux host. Most of my work is done on a MBP, so there is a good chance I’ll be trying to mess around with that image on my mac
I haven’t had a chance to try out the new container stuff that Apple announced last year, but I’m curious about giving that a try instead of using docker. Unfortunately, the Apple container stuff is exclusive to macOS 26 and newer I believe.
