Are Hi-Fi Prices Getting Ridiculous?

Good points. I think my question revealed my antique mindset, not really taking in how popular active speakers are (even though I have them all over my house :smile: ).

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It does seem that way sometimes. A lot of companies seem to be increasingly targeting the uber high end market. However, there are still plenty of affordable quality options out there, you just have to invest some effort in finding them. I really wish that the audio publications and reviewers would focus more on the the more affordable options. It seems that a disproportionate amount of ink is spilled on stuff that only the tiniest percentage of buyers can afford.

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Hmm. Current price of the LS50 Wireless II is $2800/pair. In 1978 dollars, that’s $600. D’you think you could have put together a comparably-good music system (I won’t, anachronistically, demand that it be Roon-ready) for $600 back then?

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Yes … my first hi-fi separates—integrated amp, tape deck, and speakers—cost around £350 in 1981, which was a little over $600.

In comparison, my first PC cost the equivalent of ÂŁ15,000 ($24,000) today.

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@Jacques could not have said it better!

And we should take into account that the LS50 WL2 is by far not the most affordable system offering satisfying sound quality. Would rather say it is the most expensive one among the ´future-fi´ concepts which non-hifi people would consider buying. Because you definitely pay a significant amount for the design, the driver technology and all these streaming options such as Roon ready, HDMI, Chromecast and Airplay.

If you are fine with just plain active wired speakers and USB/optical/Bluetooth option, you would rather go for a simpler concept and pay $1200. That’s an equivalent to less than 300 bucks in the 1970s and these models can offer frighteningly high sound quality.

@Stephen you are absolutely right. And I have the feeling lots of traditional audio magazines are missing that point focusing more and more on super-luxury stuff while all the general tech publications seem to get stuck in cheap mass-market stuff (portable bluetooth speakers, Amazon’s balls and alike). That leaves plenty of room for reviewers targeting an audience wanting just the maximum of sound quality for a reasonable amount of several 100 or little bit more than 1,000 bucks. If you are into hi-fi on YT you surely notice who is most successful with such a strategy.

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Triangle AIO Twin - active speakers with Linkplay streaming built in. £699. They sound very good. App is great too (Linkplay is WiiM’s parent)

PSB Alpha iQ - ÂŁ1,299 active speakers with Bluesound streaming. Playing some very nice Xuefei Yang as I type.

Acoustic Energy AE1 Active - ÂŁ1050. Add a ÂŁ300 NAD CS1 for fantastic sound quality.

If only we had a website focused on cost effective audio for beginners :slight_smile:

Edit: not forgetting Q Acoustics M20HD actives at £400. No streamer, just add a WiiM (with iFi power supply - not just saying that to wind Bill up!) A brilliant starter system - my son has them, with a turntable plumbed into them. Ditto a friend’s son - almost the same turntable.

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When I was much younger, buying new was the only way to go. Now, with Audiogon, U.S. Audio Mart and various global resale platforms, it’s possible to buy top-notch products at (relatively speaking) more reasonable prices. As an example, some years ago I snagged a pair of Vivid B1 Decade speakers at a fraction of their $28K retail price. Of course, caveat emptor applies.

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I have older BT3 QAcoustics they are a great powered speaker for the cost and look great. The M20 look better as have the extra option of USB connection.

Entry level Hifi isn’t hugely more expensive than it’s ever been. If you ask me it’s all relative and the expensive stuff was expensive back then is still expensive now. If anything the entry level stuff is way better than it used to be. They have squeezed every bit of technology to get the most out of their meagre budgets. I doubt you would have got the same performance out of some of the older speakers and amps as you get today.

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Getting ridiculous? Where have you been for the last 20 years? There are some pretty decent stuff in the $10k range and up

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Or even the $1K range and up, if you’re willing to jettison audiophile myths and legend. For instance, I’d agree with all of these points:

  • There’s no point to adding linear power supplies to everything, or even anything. Or even fancy power cables.

  • Bruno Putzeys-derived Class D amplifiers now work fine. No need for Class A, or even AB.

  • External DACs have been rendered largely unnecessary by thirty years of DAC chip design.

  • Just because something is “Made in China” doesn’t necessarily make it inferior.

  • There’s no need to assemble a system out of individually-chosen components to get high-fidelity sound. What’s more, amateurs without technical training and experience are more likely to get it wrong than right.

  • Vibrations don’t really matter to well-built solid-state electronics. No need for vibration isolation.

  • Fancy cables don’t matter. All that matters is the conductance of the wire. Properly robust cables from Amazon Basics or Blue Jeans Cables are just fine.

  • DSD, and support for it, is an unnecessary distraction. Ditto for SACD support.

  • Hi-Res, and support for it, is an unnecessary distraction. Properly mastered (aye, there’s the rub) CD quality Redbook is all that’s necessary.

  • MQA, and support for it, is an unnecessary distraction.

  • I2S, and support for it, is an unnecessary distraction.

  • Vinyl, and support for it, is a nostalgic but unnecessary distraction. If you need to do something with your hands, take up carpentry, gardening, cooking, or knitting – all of which have tangible benefits. Vinyl does not; it simply (eventually) clutters landfill with more non-decomposing plastic waste.

  • Making something heavy doesn’t necessarily make it good.

  • Making something expensive doesn’t necessarily make it good.

  • Just because something doesn’t cost a lot doesn’t make it faulty.

  • Audio reviewers, either paper or on the Web, are trying to sell ads, not help you out. You can’t usually trust what they are telling you.

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@Bill_Janssen has dropped the mic.

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Why not add analogue VU meters and wood panelling to the unnecessary list?

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Those are pretty at least (if you like that sort of thing). I’d like me some McIntosh-style VU-meters, and my Peachtree has a pretty nice wood case. But these are esthetic McIntosh does not claim that having dancing needles makes their gear sound better.

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Oh, they’re definitely on the list! Unless you like them, of course. :rofl:

Not saying anyone has to follow my list. They’re just good things to know if you’re trying to get the most high-fidelity for your buck.

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The second hand prices are getting ridiculous, so you can’t buy a big old Tannoy, Yamaha NS1000, Technics SP10 or Threshold for very little money anymore. But new products are cheaper now. With plate amps and building your own speakers you can get very high end for not too much money. But then you still need the right room to put those heavy DIY speakers in and those rooms are getting way out of reach for the younger generation in the cities nowadays.

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The article was narrowly focused and really only applies to what I’d consider the traditional audiophile market. As boomers age out the market it will continue to shrink. It’s kind of like the classic car market in that respect.

My opinion, these are the good old days. There’s never been a better time to enjoy reproduced music.

High quality steaming services make access to the worlds’s music almost free.

New technologies like class D amplifiers are becoming so good that they can easily replace more traditional offerings. Ralph Kirsten’s, designer and builder of the Atma-sphere line of OTL valve amplifiers says his class D offerings sound better than his OTL offerings, which are widely acclaimed.

Digital front ends are getting better and better and the price is dropping dramatically. Simple streamers and high quality DAC’s are available at price points that were unheard of a few years ago.

You don’t need fiddly and large analog front ends anymore. No turntables, unless you like the vinyl experience. No reel to reels or cassettes needed.

So where are all the young audiophiles?
They’re listening on headphones driven by Schiit stacks or Chinese stacks and enjoying sound that rivals 5 figure conventional system for 1/10 the price.

They do this because they live in apartments or other communal living arrangements. They will perhaps move into some powered speakers, or maybe even an integrated amplifier driving conventional speakers.

But there doesn’t seem to be much interest in collecting large and ostentatious racks of individual components connected by expensive cables.

Go to a Can-Jam sometime and check out the demographic contrasts between that and a ‘traditional’ audio show.

Did I mention all the new and excellent integrated amplifiers on the market today? Every manufacturer has a number of them in their lineup.

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I think you’re absolutely right. For many of us, old enough to have lived the vinyl and CD age, there is a sense of surprise (to say the least) with the prices and opulence of Hifi gear coming into the market these days. Just look at the Stereophile account of the Munich Show and you’d think that you need to be a millionare to enjoy music with good quality gear. This is simply not true, as you described in your post, but reflects a general trend in many societies - the rise of the luxury market to cater for the 0.01% who own an increasing (and huge) proportion of the planet’s wealth. It’s the same people who consume uber expensive hotels, luxury cars, live in houses that look like modern day castles. These people justify the luxury hi-end market. That’s fine and we need to bear in mind that there’s more people than ever on this high society tier and that a lot of the hifi traditional media and dealers are targeting such market. As for the rest of us, we need not worry too much about it and can enjoy the enormous diversity of good quality gear on offer these days.

Having said that, I realize that the spirit of the times tends to influence the way we perceive the quality and worth of what we have. When I was in my twenties (I’m 58 now) I was more than pleased to have dinner with friends in a good restaurant, with excellent food and friendly service. Now, my dear old friends, as well as the younger generation, are only happy with trendy restaurants, with well known Chefs and recipes that need to be translated so you know what you’re eating. It’s all about the experience and status. Many of the same good old unassuming restaurants are still there, but it doesn’t look too good to go there. I always think of this when I have the feeling that my USD 3,000 streaming amp (Hegel) and USD 2,000 standmount speakers (Revel) are just “entry level” and “very simple”, that maybe I’m missing out the real hifi experience, when I read the hifi discussion groups, although it sounds beautiful to me, well adjusted to an average-sized living room, where I listen at moderate levels. Just as it seems you can’t enjoy great sound with a Seenheiser HD600 pair of cans because there’s all these new headphones that cost USD 5,000 (let alone 10,000 USD cables and 300,000 USD speakers). Well, none of this is real and in fact most people can’t dream or want to spend 8,000 USD in a hifi system to enjoy music, so how can it be “entry level”? Maybe it is for people who think that a 10,000 USD amp is on the affordable category. I’m glad I could buy it and enjoy good sound every single day, but always need to remind myself of this reality in order to put things in perspective and stop being hijicked by the mentality and view of the filthy rich, widely spread over the hifi media outlets. Yes, these are good times to enjoy music with good quality gear at decent prices and we must be thankful for that. Cheers

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What a great post!

.sjb

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I bought my KEF Reference Model 1’s back in 1992 (ish) they cost £1400. At the time, living at home with my parents and no major monetary outgoings it took me about a year to save for them, had I not been a young man who spent a fair amount of time at the pub I could have probably save for them in 8 months.

20 years later if I wanted the current KEF Reference 1’s they are now around £7,500 or here in Australia $15,000. If I wanted to save for them I think it would probably take 10 years, although, I am a parent and home owner with a lot of monetary outgoings.

Back in 1992 spending £1400 felt okay for a beautiful pair of speakers which sounded amazing to me (I actually wanted the Reference 2’s but my Hi-Fi Coach :grin:, Andy from Audio T in Swindon convinced me they were too big for my room and he was right). Luckily I still think they sound amazing.

For me the price of Hi-Fi components is insane, I really don’t understand how the companies sell enough units to keep going, all I can think is that there are an incredible amount people with a lot of disposable income.

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