Auto Identification of CDs from boxed sets

Roon Software Feature Suggestions
#1

I’m new to Roon and am importing my CD collection. I have many boxed sets. The auto identification often fails when it’s anything but the first disk of the set. When I do manual identification of the disk, it finds the CD fine, but won’t align the tracks to the correct place in the boxed set, always starting at track one of disk one, and saying that there are tracks that don’t match.

The solution is always just to move the tracks to the right disk in the CD set. This should be automatic. One could create a “time error” metric of all the time errors through all the tracks, and then march the sequence of tracks through the array of the boxed set till one gets a minimum. Yes, there are cases this could fail (all tracks the same time, etc.) but these cases will be few and far between.

One could just try starting at Track one of each disk, and see if the time aligns. Whatever. Heck, even being able to select all tracks and shift them by hand would save tons and tons of mouse clicks, and reduce inter-facial friction significantly.

Because Roon has no way to shift multiple tracks at one time, fixing this within Roon is a pain. One disk set I have, 4 CDs, each 20+ tracks. Moving 20 tracks by hand from disk one positions to disk four positions? Well, I gave up after getting through about half in more than a half hour.

I hear that there are better apps for ripping, and that may be true. But Roon supports it now, and I hope it can support it better than it currently does.

#2

SongKong may help. It will identify and tag the different discs as Disc 1, Disc 2, etc. Then, Roon will (usually) be able to figure them out correctly. It helps if all of the songs are in the same directory, and, from my experience, named 01-02, 02-02, 03-02, etc, where the first 2 digits are track numbers and the second two are disc numbers.
Yate is another metadata massager that can help with this.

#3

Hello @Matt_Richter,

If Roon recognizes the box set at all, if already in Roon I’d suggest selecting all of the CDs and merging them. (Long press will allow the multi select.)

Also, if you store each disc as you rip into a folders labeled “1”, “2”, and so on, this usually helps Roon order the discs correctly.

https://kb.roonlabs.com/FAQ:_How_can_I_ensure_multi_disc_sets_and_box_sets_are_identified_properly%3F

#4

Thanks, I’ll read the links. I’m just putting CDs into the drive and having them ripped by the ROCK into the music database. This is what I’ve run into.

#5

I’m hoping to stay within the Roon environment, using the tools built into ROCK. I’m learning that goal may be illusive. Can those apps correct the Roon database or only before the tracks are imported? The reason I ask is the following:

I have a CD drive connected to the Intel NUC running Rock. It auto burns CDs then loads them into the Roon database. If I have to go to a third party metadata manager, auto loading is not going to work. I’ll have to rip and correct metadata, then move into Roon. Maybe I’ll have to live with that for the boxed sets.

The suggested way to organize files is a great bit of information, but the auto-rip process creates a directory by time, with tracks labelled as track1 etc. If the auto rip feature made the correct directory structure for the auto import to work, this would be a non-issue.

I’d be happy if it just imported and identified each disc of the boxed set and moved the tracks to the right slots. It wouldn’t be much work for me to group the discs into a set using Roon tools.

Doing the track metadata correction after stuff is in Roon using the Roon tools works, but tries one’s patience and is very cumbersome.

#6

The apps are generally used prior to import, though I’ve used them on music that was incorrectly identified in Roon, and then re-imported them. They can also update files in-place, though, so that might work for you. SongKong can watch a folder, and it can move files after updating the metadata; if your system can import to a folder watched by SongKong, then SK can fix the metadata and move the files into your Roon-watched folder(s).

Editing metadata directly in Roon is an exercise in frustration.

#7

Just received this in the mail:

IMG_20190804_191407
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…all 18 discs. I checked AllMusic.com and the box set is listed:

but, of course, there is no way to label discs within a set (e.g. out-takes vs. live vs. original album). So, I am trying to decide if I want to (a) combine as a box set (i.e. Disc [N]) or as separate CDs with their own cover art and disc title.

I know the Roon folks have stated that they won’t “…just allow one to add a unique album art and title…” to solve the box set problem. But for my collection, that would 100% solve the issue.

#8

Thanks for the pointers. Yes, I’m learning that doing it in Roon is a pain.

#9

I’d suggest that you will have more luck ripping all CDs, then merging in Roon, then asking Roon to identify.

The real problem comes when Roon doesn’t identify the set — what do you do then? Personally I do a minimum of editing the file structure (name the artist / album, possibly identify the tracks and rewriting the files accordingly, and so on). I don’t need everything to be perfect, but I like Roon radio to be effective, and my displays to have meaningful (basic) information.

Many on this forum will have strong views about all of this, so caveat emptor.

#10

FI haven’t tried the Rock Ripping, my couple of pointers

Set out one folder for the box set

Rip each Disc into separate folder CD01, or CD001 depending on the disc count

Do not add any text after CD1 eg CD1 - Beethoven Symphony no1, Roon will see that as a separate album

Once ripped THEN import into Roon library

Maybe consider an external ripper , tagger, eg dbPoweramp or MP3Tag it will cut down on the frustration

While SongKong is great it also depends on 3rd party data

The prime recommendation is keep a box set as a box set , do not split off individual discs, Roon will struggle

My 2p

#11

You can edit anything after its ripped and in your library. For the CDs I ripped so far I renamed folders and then used MP3 tag to add extra metadata to the files that Roon does not add as I use my files outside of Roon as well. It would be better if ROCK ripping had this feature but I doubt it will until more use it and request it and even then unlikely as a metadata editor Roon is not nor wants to be

#12

Jealous. I want one

#13

What follows is how I dealt with ripping a 6CD boxed set that was not recognised by Roon.

Stick 1st CD in - let it rip, then find it by searching via focus for recently added today (not sure if there is a better way).

Edit the metadata for the disc, and only change the disc number (left hand colum) to the number of the disc - ie 1 at this point, then on the bottom left, click Create Album (I think that is how the button is labelled, or something similar).

Do the same for each disc after it is ripped, but setting the disc number as appropriate for the disc in the set.

Once all of the disc are ripped and you have created these temporary albums that each identify the disc number, then select all of these separate unknown albums and through metadata edit view - merge them. They will preserve their assigned disc numbers.

Now, if you attempt to identify the whole album you may get a match. If not, then if you have to manually search for the album by entering its title for example, then upon selecting the correct match, you should find that all of your discs and track line up, so you can just save the result - job done.

I am not quite sure why even after merging the albums it was unable to perform an automatic identification however.

The key part here is that after ripping the second CD and manually identifying it, and then looking at the resulting track alignment listing, your first reaction (as mine was) may be OMG - I really have to manually move each of these track individual to the matching track in the album - forget it - lets find a ripper that works :slight_smile:

Don’t - follow the step above to pre-assign the disc numbers and merge the disc into a single album.

I must confess, I do find this this whole process a bit unintuitive and feel there needs to be better identification of discs within a multi-disc set and more importantly through the UI path that a user is most likely to end up at when trying to identify the disc - probably meta data edit as a result of clicking on Unidentified in CD title. Maybe the track align or merge function should include some means at that point of identifying the disc number and thus be able to shuttle a bunch of tracks down to the right place instantly.

As first encounter the thought that I would have to manually position each and every track over 6 CDs was met with something approaching utter horror! Sufficient to either abandon the whole thing (and use another ripper) or maybe find a better way within Roon which I eventually found.

#14

I’ve been using an external ripper (XLD) to create separate albums for each disc. That is, as individual CDs, not as a box set. This works if the box was also released as individual CDs, which is often the case for stuff in my collection (e.g. Haydn box sets from NAXOS).

Then, I restart Roon Server and let it discover the new music. Finally, I add a tag to each album in the box set. Now, I can browse box sets as a tagged collection and have unique cover art and title for each CD.

The missing piece of the puzzle: order of the CDs. You can sort by Date Added, Album Title, Composition (i.e. Work - I love that option), but there is no easy way to assign an ordinal to members of the tagged collection. Yes, I could add a number to the album title, but that’s not right and will create other problems.

Maybe order of the CDs in the box doesn’t matter that much, for things like the Haydn example. But, for other collections, it does (e.g. Simple Minds New Gold Dream Box - the original album, followed by 5 other discs of outtakes, etc.).

Maybe all I would need to solve this last problem would be the ability to designate a PRIMARY member of the tagged collection, which would shows that album cover for the tagged collection and always list that one first. For my non-classical box sets, that would be ideal for everything I currently own.

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#15

I use release date, and increment the individual “CDs” by 1 day and then the auto-sort. I just ripped the Michael Haydn: 20 symphonies box. Since they were all individually released prior it was easy identification. However, I wanted them in Symphony order, or I incremented the release date by 1 on each disk so they sorted that way.

#16

Interesting idea. Let me think about that one…

#17

What is the default sort criteria for a tag collection?

#18

Replying to Krutsch.

Friedrich Gulda Complete Beethoven Piano Concertos & Sonatas. Added „(Disc x of 12)“ to each CD title (they‘re all individual anyway, designating the works, not the box). Ripped and stored on Intuos Zen mini mk3 (Roon Bridge), adjusted before actual ripping. iPeng9 remote identifies all 12 CDs (with one exception also in correct order - need to check why), whereas Roon only finds one of the 12 (apparently not relying on individual title nor album art work etc., but on external reference data base instead).

I‘m completely new to the subject, so question: Could you point me to potential issues being created by adding CD counter to title? Similarly, by adding composer name to an otherwise completely general CD title (eg „Haydn: Complete Symphonies“ instead auf automatic „Complete Symphonies“)? Thank you so much.

#19

A good start is to see if the Box Exists in All Music , and/or MusicBrainz . These are the two primary sources for Roon

The Box is on MusicBrainz

and Allmusic

This means that Roon should be able to ID it as a complete box.

If a Box exists like this , it is best to “leave it alone” even though the individual CD’s have been released separately. If not you will confuse Roon

In this case …

Create a Folder for the Box name appropriately “Beethoven Sonatas and Concertos - Gulda”. Create this in a working area anywhere NOT in a Roon watched folder YET

Rip each CD and name accordingly CD01 … CD12
Do NOT add Text after the CD01 (eg CD01 - Sonatas Op.2 ) as Roon will interpret this as a single album
Rip all CD’s and build the master folder.

If you have an external editor open the set in it (MP3 Tag or Tagscanner are free if not)

Make sure

Each CD has its CD Number set correctly a per the CD01…CD12 disc

Set the Album Name = " Gulda spielt Beethoven: Klaviersonaten Nr. 1-32 / Klavierkonzerte Nr. 1-5"
its official name . This is not vital but every little helps you can change it later in Roon as you see fit (I anglicize for example)

You are good to go…

Once Complete you should have the whole set, simply copy to whatever folder structure you have , Roon will do the rest.

This wrks when the box can be ID’ed as a Box. If you split off odd discs, Roon may ID or more likely may not . The older LP collections often not as they tend to contain extra trck to make up the CD 75 min hence are not as they were originally released)

I have over 400 boxes I have had a lot of practice :joy: :joy: :joy:

Welcome to the wonderful world of Roon Box sets. Yours is an easy One …

1 Like
#20

Thanks a lot for the comprehensive, helpful feedback, Mike.

To be sure: normally I wouldn’t too much worry about Roon recognizing a Box Set or not, as long as I’m not interested in playing the CDs in that order anyway (such as in the Gulda case), but then the Gulda case suggests that Roon would ONLY recognize the individual CDs AT ALL as long as it can recognize the Box.

This of course begs the question which changes can be applied to a CD record before Roon loses its capacity to recognize the CD. Common mistakes / errors which do require intervening: Artist same as Composer but actually not (often in classsical CDs), special language characters wrongly displayed (French and Spanish typical examples), composers displayed in cyrillic or Asian characters (which I wouldn’t be able to enter in case I wanted to search for them), … Hopefully Roon would only be confused if the TITLE of the CD were changed, but if such changes also confused it, a real pity.

Further comment / question, if I may: I read that changing the folder entries is not a good idea, even if one detected errors there - I imagine such changes should instead be performed in a metadata editor? Irrespective of free vs paid editor: any suggestions for a few truly good and proven ones (I’ll be ripping around 3k CDs, so am prepared to invest in something with a really good User Interface)?

Thanks a lot and best, Joachim