Yes. It’s also a massively expensive one to develop, and even more expensive to support (if that’s even possible). It’s a huge undertaking not only in terms of algos, but also in terms of UI… look at how long it took Dirac, who had the team ready to go, and a solid customer base, both end-user and OEM, to deliver on V2… I’m also unsure it’d be a good idea, in terms of support ressource drain, for RoonLabs to dangle that kind of capability in front of a crowd who can barely stand not getting an answer to a problem over a weekend.
Then, you’ve got to keep in mind that the options that currently exist cost either a significant fraction of what Roon does (Dirac, Accourate) or way more (the hardware based solutions by Trinnov and Illusonic, which are both “just” linux distros, and could probably run perfectly well as Roon plugins). The cost of support to get them really right, in both cases would probably be similar to what HAF bills anyway, at least if you don’t want Accourate’s steep learning curve.
What it comes down to, as far as I can tell, is that Dirac has demonstrated very little interest in Roon integration, and their behaviour seems to indicate that they think that Roon needs to adapt to Dirac rather than the other way around. Trinnov is probably fine with selling you expensive computers, and Illusonic probably doesn’t have the ressources to support 100’000+ Roon users…
Use highly directive loudspeakers, which tend to minimize room interactions in the first place (at the cost of a relatively small sweet spot). Examples include hybrid electrostatic models from JansZen and Sanders.
Apply crosstalk-eliminating (or -minimizing) software/hardware. The only system I’m familiar with is BACCH but there may be others.
These tend to be very expensive components, but there is a BACCH4Mac intro edition for under $1K (assuming you already have a Mac). I’m doing a 2 week trial with it now.
Dirac seems to consider that RoonLabs should pay them to make that happen, at least that’s what I understood from what Dirac’s head of marketing said, a bit over two years ago. He also didn’t seem to have bothered to look at Roon’s hardware at the time he was giving those types of answers. I’ll let you reach your own conclusions, but if I wanted Dirac Room correction, mine would probably be “buy Dirac-enabled hardware”.
I have worked with REW for a couple of months. I’ve read multiple articles and watched several videos on how to use it. All to no avail. It is hugely complicated. Why can’t Roon put together a deal with Dirac for them to sell their program to Roon users?
I’d say “ask Roon”, and from what I’ve seen, I suspect a bit of “because Dirac see themselves as above all that” (I’d give it the more generous “because Dirac has other objectives” if it wasn’t for that thing about ROCK and Nucleii - the guy’s account was 3 years old at the point he said that, and I feel that sets the tone for the attention that’s been given to Roon users).
I’ve given my conjectures, which are completely worthless and have to do with how Dirac sees their licensing model (i.e, as something that’s per-device, as opposed to per-household), elsewhere. I’d personally rather see Roon do a deal with one of the über high end options I posted about earlier, because my feeling is that it’d be a better for everyone.
Anyway, I agree with Dirac’s marketing position, which is that as a Roon user, you have many options if you want Dirac today, from the MiniDSP devices to cheap Windows endpoints.
Well, truth is, almost none of them are interested in room optimization let alone the interaction between the loudspeakers and the room. If they did they would not need any dsp room correction to begin with.
I do not agree. I try to treat my room as well as possible and as much as it is aesthetically acceptable for a living room, which is where I want to have my stereo. I just want to have my hobby where I am living and not in a dedicated cave in basement. Of course that comes with compromises.
Yes, absorbers and diffusors or simply the right furniture in the right place are the better choice for getting the room’s reverb and reflections on track. But DSP is much more effective if you have to deal about very particular screw-ups at certain frequencies.
Furthermore it also allows you to apply very basic correctings to not so important rooms, where you don’t want to spend a fortune on bass traps, diffusors and absorbers.
That’s my point, really. It’s preferable to equalise as close to the actual output as possible. DSP correction in Roon might be changed somewhere down the chain, especially in situations where the (pre)amp routes the analog input through its own DSP.
I still stick with my method of applying software room correction as a last resort and then only at amp level. Physical room treatment is still the way to go in my book. A throw pillow might be a better solution than fiddling with software.
Heck, I still use a good old fashioned graphic equaliser with actual physical sliders in one of my rooms.
Unfortunately, uploading is not possible, it must be done by manually creating filters in the procedural equializer of Roon and one by one type in the frequency, gain and Q values suggested by REW. And for 2 channels! This topic is about a feature request for being able to upload files.
Thanks for sharing Jelte, that is exactly what i also ended up doing … it was a long listthat did not seem logic and did not resulted in a desired result. But you motivated me to go through the same “journey” once more before i consult with HAF.
Save yourself the grief. Contact Thierry at HAF. You’ll end up with a far better set of filters that you likely can make yourself.
On the other hand. Learning the process in REW or other is good knowledge to have. You can also learn how to setup your speakers/subs to be as close as possible BEFORE performing measurements for HAF. Then he can really dial in the polish. XTalk filters he makes are nothing short of amazing (for me of course). No connection other than a very happy customer for 3 years.
If you really want to sculp the bass response in your room learn about HAF Room Shaper. It can be a complex audio path to implement but nothing I’ve found does what it does including convolution.
Another vote for @Home_Audio_Fidelity, Thierry. It is very low effort. Once you do the measurements, he does all the work. He will even tweak for you to your individual taste. For the money, you can’t find a better option. BACCH is 10x the price.
Thierry is here in the Roon forum and I have included him in this thread. Seriously, talk to him. The process is as easy as 1-2-3.