B1432: Is it me, or is Roon sounding a bit thin in the midrange

Let me explain, even before the latest build was released I have always thought Roon (RAAT) sounded a wee bit different to other methods via Roon and even when compared to other software options including native streaming services.

This isn’t a comparison to which sounds best.

This is an observation, more noticeable since B1432, that the midrange (and top end of the bass spectrum) sounds thin, bland.

Using Roon with the same equipment and using RAAT, AirPlay and Chromecast and the same album I clearly do hear that AirPlay and Chromecast sound fuller, more pleasing to my ears than that when using RAAT.

Before those who shout about volume levels being different, yes I agree this does and could be a factor. If I turn Roon/RAAT up it is still lacking. Turn down Roon/Airplay and you still hear the fuller sound.

I believe this is more noticeable since this build though.

Is it just me?

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There can be differences between different paths from source to endpoint caused by

  1. Different signal paths. Have you looked at the signal paths for RAAT, AirPlay, and Chromecast? They could be different because of data rate limitations in AirPlay and Chromecast.
  2. Even if signal paths are the same, endpoints may process the incoming data differently for different streaming methods. There can be a lot of hidden (unnecessary?) complexity in streaming endpoints.
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Same endpoint was used with RAAT, AirPlay and Chromecast, a WiiM Pro Plus, to the same DAC.

The same albums played which were all 16/44.1 from local content.

No volume levelling or other DSP in use.

Just different protocols.

Build 1432, to me, is more noticeable than it’s ever been.

Do the signal paths look identical? Are you sure there are no rate changes or other processing there or inside the WiiM? It’s very unlikely that the protocol itself is the issue, as opposed to differences upstream or downstream of the streaming protocol itself.

To answer the question, I don’t hear differences. Maybe it’s you.

EDIT. I should expand and clarify; I often hear my system differently depending on mood, or just how I happen to feel about music reproduction in general when listening. Sometimes the system sounds heavenly and I can’t imagine it sounding any better. Other times it sounds like a poor substitute for the original performance.

Because of that and other reasons, I have a hard time putting value to what people hear or don’t hear.

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Will not get into the argument if these outputs sound different from each other, but find it interesting that you are stating (implied) that the output you describe sounding thin is the incorrect/bad one. Could also be that the one that sounds thin, is the unaltered and correct one, and the ones you describe as full are the incorrect ones?

To me this is not just an exercise in semantics, but one about preference. If you enjoy the ones you describe as full, why not just enjoy them instead of trying to find a fault in Roon (when the fault might just be with AirPlay/Chromecast). There are EQs available, if you want to tailor your sound to your own preference. Use them.

(and yes, could be the other way around as you describe of course, but my last paragraph still stands)

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Not implied anything other than I believe l hear a difference more so now than ever before. Not saying Roon via RAAT is bad.

I urge you to read my initial post again.

I have given no indication of saying there’s a fault.

I am saying since the release of B1432 I believe the sound via RAAT is thinner in the midrange and more so now when I compare it to AirPlay and Chromecast.

Yes, could completely be down to AirPlay and/or Chromecast being the culprits.

I’m aware of the use of EQ :+1:

Still placing no blame or saying there’s a fault with Roon/RAAT.

To clarify from my point, not that it matters, I’m a lifetime subscriber to Roon and prefer the Roon UI over anything else.

I created this thread for discussion, as over the years I’ve used Roon and this forum I have read from a number of folks that they believe they hear a difference from one build to another.

On this occasion I believe this is the case. Currently with no EQ being applied I prefer the sound from AirPlay when compared to RAAT. I’m allowed to have that preference without others shooting me down.

Again, not saying there’s a fault with Roon/RAAT, just curious if others feel the same.

I prefer to use AirPlay without using EQ than RAAT with EQ.

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I would also infer that you think it sounds less good… :man_shrugging:

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I happen to own a WiiM Pro, and also notice differences between RAAT, AirPlay and Chromecast when playing hires material. Best fidelity at my house, however, comes from using the Diretta network protocol under Audiolinux OS into a Raspberry Pi endpoint.

Everything matters.

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Here we go

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Yes it’s just you.

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I think it is a very interesting concept and in a way I recognise the difference. When I first started using Roon on my Cocktail Audio X45, I found the sound more relaxing than by using the native app. In a pleasing way. Then I bought a new player and as it wasn’t certified yet I played Roon with Airplay. The sound was markedly warmer, but when I used the original (Lumin) app it was more aggresive. I decided that for me, the Lumin-sound was preferable. My player is certified now and I find the difference between the Lumin-app and Roon is minimal. That said, I think the difference in sound in Roon or another app is not the greatest factor. Both the player and the network have a far more dramatic effect on the sound. In the end I prefer to just enjoy the music, as I don’t know which variant is most like the original; probably none…

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It’s probably you.
It often happened to me depending on my feelings and moods.
Hard times finding causes, changing setup and everything went right a week after with no changes…

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Get old , lose your top frequencies and enjoy the music …

Seriously , the RAAT protocol and player section of Roon are 8 years old , why should there be a difference between builds. Check the release notes , I doubt Roon devs have touched the player in years , if it ain’t broke …

If Roon had actively changed the player do you think they wouldn’t use it as a selling point “New Improved washes whiter” etc

Can you verify that there is no volume differences between your A and B comparisons

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Hi, Menzies.

Yes, it’s most likely you.
I will not get into that discussion, but listening to music has a lot to do with mood and I feel it myself sometimes. Then I just put on my favorite record and everything is OK.

If you prefere AirPlay then use Airplay (with its limits). Same goes for Chromecast. Roon’s RAAT protocol are developed for many years and build 1432 doesn’t change anything. Sound`s just great.

PS: To get build 1432 out of your head, join the Early Access program. Then you will get build 1436 ea.
Thx.

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Good to read you all think it’s me :rofl:

Not hung up on this at all.

FWIW, I’ll always enjoy music over minor things like this.

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12 posts were split to a new topic: You could try a power cleaner

As the thread creator I see things went off topic 6 hours ago. Sorry @Rohangis_Mohseni

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In my humble, subjective, 60 year old ears opinion - Airplay / Spotify native app streaming sounds a bit louder across the board aka imo a compressed signal - Roon sounds more dynamic. I know that in my configuration, Airplay is not lossless even though Apple Music UI says so - Darko did a thorugh episode on Airplay SQ btw.

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