Wired ethernet, Comcast cable modem, eero router, Netgear ethernet switches.
Local Library: Mac Studio (8TB SSD)
Connected Audio Devices
dCS Vivaldi system - via Network to Vivaldi Upsampler
Number of Tracks in Library
~60,000 (Mac Studio + Tidal + Qobuz)
Description of Issue
Roon on the Nucleus+ has run flawlessly since it the new Nucleus was installed on 2023-03-15. Suddenly backups are now failing. I have scheduled backups to both Dropbox and to local storage on the Mac Studio SSD. Both backups now fail during the “Snapshotting” phase. This morning I’ve tried forcing backups to both destinations 3-4 times, and they’ve all failed. When they fail, the website UI still shows the server as running OK, but the Roon app on the iPad (or the Mac) will no longer connect to the Nucleus+. I have to reboot the server from the web UI to get things running again. At this point, the other parts of Roon on the Nucleus+ appear to be functioning normally.
Hi, Benjamin,
I created a .zip file of the RoonBackups folder. But it’s ~189GB. The portal to submit files has a warning that 50GB is the maximum allowable size. So I did not try to upload it. Please let me know what to do next.
ALSO… here’s another odd piece of info: When I checked Roon this morning (6/9), the scheduled backups for both my backup destinations had run earlier and successfully completed. No idea what to make of that?
Thanks for the heads up! In this case, it sounds like we may want to setup a separate, temporary folder to create a single, fresh backup that we could inspect. However, the database would only be helpful to us if the issue is persisting
What is your current status on this issue? Are you still having issues with backups falling?
Hi Benjamin,
Earlier this morning the scheduled backup to the local Mac SSD ran successfully. It’s scheduled every 3 days. The Dropbox backup (every 4 days) should run tomorrow morning I believe. I’ll let you know how that one goes. In the past, it’s the Dropbox backup that occasionally fails, although I don’t understand why the snapshotting process would be any different. Back on Thursday 6/8, after the Dropbox failure, I tried forcing backups 4 time - twice to Dropbox and twice to the Mac. All 4 attempts failed during the snapshotting phase, leading me to believe something was indeed wrong. In any case I’ll give you an update tomorrow.
Thanks for the update! When reviewing your core diagnostic, the only error trace I’m seeing in relation to the falling back up is:
06/13 22:38:36 Info: [broker/dropbox] no account configured
There seems to be a hiccup or miscommunication between Roon and your Dropbox account. Perhaps a password reset followed by a re-sync of your Roon and Dropbox account may help in this case? If you try to manually back up to your Dropbox account, does the same issue occur?
Can you temporarily test out hardwiring your core directly to your router, bypassing any switches, the next time you attempt an auto backup to Dropbox?
Yesterday (6/15) I disconnected Roon from my Dropbox account. I went into Dropbox and changed the password. Then I signed back into Dropbox on Roon with the new credentials. No problems.
After the Dropbox backup failure on 6/13, Roon automatically re-tried the Dropbox backup the next day on 6/14, and that backup ran successfully.
Earlier this morning (6/16) I also launched a Dropbox backup manually, and that backup also completed successfully.
The network router is in a different room and on a different floor from where the Nucleus+ is installed in close proximity to the audio system. With the complicated configuration of cabinetry, interconnects, and power cables, it would be a significant headache to move the Nucleus, and I’d risk screwing something else up in the process. So instead, I did the following…
The Mac Studio is connected directly (though by a much longer cable run) to same ethernet switch as the Nucleus+. To check communication between the local network and Dropbox, I created 3 large test folders on the Mac Studio – Test-01 Roon, Test-02 Roon, and Test-03 Roon (31 GB, 33 GB, 48 GB respectively). I then uploaded all three folders (sequentially) to my on-line Dropbox account. During much of that time, Roon was also streaming internet radio to the Mac, or Tidal and Qobuz files to the audio system, without any problems. All 3 folders were transferred to Dropbox without issues or interruptions of any kind. (See screenshots.) Though not definitive, I tend to feel this demonstrates there is no communication issue between the local network and Dropbox. Whatever problem there may be would seem to be specific to Roon and/or the Nucleus+.
I’d be very interested to know if you can see any error information regarding the backup failures I described in my original 6/08 post. Those failures were quite different from the more recent failure of the Dropbox backup to fully complete the transfer process after ~1.5 hrs. On that date, I manually launched several backups to both Dropbox and the Mac Studio SSD. All failed catastrophically during the snapshotting, not during the transfer process. I know this because I was watching the process in real time on the iPad. In all these instances, I had to reboot the Roon server from the webUI to get Roon operational again. Are you able to see anything in the logs that would explain what was happening there and what was responsible for the failures?
Thanks for the update and for your troubleshooting!
We were able to take a closer look into the failures that occurred on 06/08 and see there was an error specifically between Roons API and Drobox’s API in relation to the directory path of the attempted backup. The error code given is a bit vague but tells us the connection path was no longer in a compatible state.
Reviewing a fresh diagnostic on your core, I don’t see any of the above errors. I’ll be curious to see how things function over the next few days, and if you run into this issue again.
But be aware, after attempted Dropbox backups failed on 6/08, I also tried to manually backup to the local Mac Studio SSD (twice I think). And those backups also failed during the snapshotting process, which I was watching in real time on the iPad.
In any case, I’ll let you know how scheduled backups to both Dropbox and the Mac do over the next couple days.
FYI, I’ve also updated all my devices to the latest release of the Roon software.
Yesterday (6/21) Roon attempted to run both scheduled backups.
The backup to the local Mac SSD ran successfully (as usual).
The Dropbox backup ran from 9:00am until almost 6:30pm, and only completed “successfully” because I was keeping and eye on it and hit the “Retry” button every time the process “Stalled due to network issues.” That stall/retry thing happened at least four times. I’ve attached screenshots depicting a couple examples. When it runs properly, the remote backup to Dropbox runs in a bit less than 3 hours.
I’ve also attached a screenshot of Speedtest showing the upload/download speeds at the Mac in midafternoon. These speeds are typical and quite consistent.
I can’t prove it to you absolutely, but I’m pretty certain there are no connectivity problems with the local network that would prevent Roon from accessing the Dropbox account. I can upload and download data to Dropbox all day long with zero issues. I have a third-party backup service that runs continuously on both Macs in the household, and it has not had even one connectivity problem in the several years we’ve been using it. The iPad backs up wirelessly every night over the same eero router and Comcast cable modem – and never a problem. None of the other connected devices in the house – and there are many by now – has ever experienced a network connectivity problem.
So, I think the problem lies in Roon hardware or software.
I talked to my Roon dealer about this issue earlier this morning. He told me that the Dropbox backup was so unreliable that he stopped using it on his store network. He was experiencing a failure rate of about 1 in 5 backups. According to some of his contacts inside Roon, Dropbox connectivity is a known problem inside the company and it just is what it is. Which is disappointing.
In any case, I’m not sure it’s worth either of times to keep chasing this issue. I’ll either disable the Dropbox backup altogether, or just leave it on and let it fail whenever it gets stuck.
If a larger issue arises (e.g., if local backups begin to fail), I’ll open a new problem ticket.
Thanks for the update @Charles_Craiglow! I’m going to take this information as well as a fresh diagnostic report to the development call we have first thing on Monday. I should have more information to share after that - thanks again for your patience thus far!
Thank you for your patience! I was able to bring a fresh diagnostic to our development call, and our team was able to pin down an error in the code between Roon and Dropbox. The tricky part is that there’s some fixing up that needs to be done from both Roon and Dropbox collectively.
There isn’t much in regard to a solution that I can give you right away, unfortunately. We are now needing to reproduce the issue in-house so our dev team can get to work on a fix.
Until we’re able to get a fix released you may have to stick with relying on manual backups with Dropbox which you have my apologies for. It’s certainly not ideal
I don’t have any sense of a timeline on this, but I will keep you updated as new information is presented. Thank you!
Thanks Benjamin!
I really appreciate you driving this issue to some sort of conclusion. FYI, a scheduled Dropbox backup ran again yesterday. It did complete without assistance - but it took from 9:00a until 4:00p in the afternoon, more than 4 hours longer than “normal.”
In any case, I guess we can stand down for now and see how things progress over the next couple months.
