Folder Browsing [Never happening] 2016-03

Feedback Feature Suggestions
103

Nope, the problem is I don’t remember the artist or album title off hand. Here is an example. I have a vague recollection of a jazz album I bought a few years back. I don’t remember the name of the album or the artist but will recognise them when I see them. In my old DNLA set up, I would browse to Jazz, scan through the artist names and likely recognise the artist out of the 3-400 listed. This doesn’t take too long to do. I can then scan through the few albums by that artist, check the track list to see which I recognise, and pick the album.

Roon is great if you know what you are looking for, but trying to find an artist you can’t quite remember is very difficult.

There is also a very strong reticence to folder browsing in the Roon community that I cannot understand. While the Roon experience is great, it is not always the best way to do things. In the past people have suggested tagging and other strategies. In my case I have a great deal of knowledge imbedded in my file structure that predates my Roon use. I would love to have access to this useful knowledge. I don’t have the time to go through 4000+ albums to update tags and manage what is already managed in the file structure. So for me folder browsing is a high priority. Because even with tags in my newer albums, I still can’t browse in the way I would prefer.

1 Like
104

@pwright92 and @James_I

Glad that neither of you sensed that I was attempting to invalidate your request. More just to highlight ways that I get to stuff. I also came from folders, foobar, squeeze, Sooloos etc so I do understand. They all had lists.

Nothing more annoying than not quite remembering what you actually want to play. I that scenario, I would tend to use focus = jazz and maybe any other data I could recall (e.g. format or date or key word). I actually find skimming through album covers to be a more pleasant experience than a folder list when trying to jog memory.

The mate’s music on a stick is an interesting example. Much depends on how their files are presented and tagged in all cases. Viewing albums by folder does imply that albums and folders have a 1:1 relationship. Roon handles albums in a way that doesn’t require them to be stored that way.
e.g. many correctly tagged albums can be in a single folder and an album can span several folders.

Any new view albums by folder would need to not break in all cases. This is part of the reason why such a seemingly easy tweak isn’t done (yet).

I don’t recall if this was ever mentioned above but the track view sorted by folder path is another way to get at content by folder. Not perfect but worth a look as it would cover the mate’s stick with .wav tracks I expect.

image.png1497×839 140 KB

105

I would be happy with just a file view, once I identify the music I am trying to find/remember I would be happy to do a Roon search for that album name or song. :wink:

I’m interested in the actual file names, not so much the album metadata or similar.

106

Maybe Roon just isn’t for you long term, which is OK.

Personally I love the Roon Way. I can find anything I like and I enjoy following links from the tracks equivalence or reviews and credits.
Discover is also great if you can’t decide where to start. With Focus, I find I can get close enough that a little browsing gets me to where I want to be. Also I can search easily anywhere.
Over time I edit as I listen and add favourites, this gives me a deep understanding of my Libraray.
In tracks, just focus on Favourites and you have an instant playlist of Favourites.

I can understand if this jump from folders to the more graphical Roon system is too much but I think you do need to make it to get the best from Roon. I wouldn’t go back to folders for anything, it’s just too dull for me.

If the option is possible for those that want it, then all well and good. As people we are all different anyways.

107

Looks like you didn’t read the whole thread to understand the specific problem I would like to solve with folder browsing. Not sure of the point you are trying to make…

108

Would you mind giving a little more detail about how this requires folder browsing?

Also, two other clarifications:

First, the “find tracks by path” info I linked to above is a way to locate specific files or folders from within in Roon – it’s not meant to be a full fledged file browser, but it does address that one use case, which was pretty frustrating prior to 1.3.

Also, combining path filtering with our redesigned Tags feature allows for powerful filtering and sorting functionality that’s simply not possible in a folder browser.

For example, if I had a folder called Music From HDTracks, I could filter the path browser for that path and tag all the tracks as Music from HDTracks. That tag will now be available across Roon, letting me shuffle all the albums in that folder, or letting me browse the albums from that folder, artists with music in that folder, etc.

This can also be combined with Focus, so I can see “60’s Jazz from HDTracks” or “HDTracks Downloads sorted by Release date”. This is way more powerful than a folder browser, although I understand it doesn’t preclude that functionality. Expect this area of functionality to get even more powerful with some upcoming changes we have planned for “smart” tags, and Focus.

The second point is just about priorities – there’s nothing really wrong with a folder browser, but building it takes man weeks or months that could be spent on other priorities. Browsing files is something Roon was designed to supplant, and spending a month or two building that functionality almost certainly means more requests to expand and improve the folder browsing functionality.

It also means people accustomed to file browsing spend less time exploring the powerful sorting and filtering functionality of Roon. None of this is to say we’ll never build a folder browser, just trying to give you guys some insight into why it’s probably not a sensible use of resources at the moment.

All of that said, the feedback is truly appreciated, and we’re always listening guys. Thanks all!

109

Just chatting.

110

I can totally understand the resource allocation issue. It may not be the highest priority to build a folder browser capability. Resources are limited - and yes I am also interested in the improved shuffle and radio capabilities that seem to be on the horizon. And I’d love to be able to leverage my existing custom metatag information so I can convert those to Roon Tags. The list goes on, but developer time is limited!

I would just question any statement that that folder browsing capability is “harmful” as that is really a value judgment that need not be made about anyone’s hobby.

And I’ll say this again - while this differs from others’ use cases - what I think is useful is the ability to browse folders for items that are NOT in the library and play them on a one-time basis - although no reason to limit the capability to non-indexed storage locations. Adding and then deleting storage locations doesn’t really do the trick, especially for files/formats that don’t have good or reliable metadata - maybe I just want to hear a track to know if it’s worth the time investment to add metadata.

But I get it - developers don’t want to go down the rabbit hole of refinement requests for folder browsing capability when there are some other kick-ass features to roll-out first. By all means, wow me with something that makes me forget my selfish desires!

1 Like
111

Okay, so to set the stage, I have a long history of buying CDs twice because I used to forget what I have. Things didn’t improve with a music server. :wink:

So the scenario is I know I have album that I want to hear or play for someone but can’t remember the artist or name. For me this is a weekly occurrence (4000+ albums and a dodgy memory). So first I go to my music server:

File Server Root.png2454×1766 506 KB

Then into jazz:

Jazz Level.png2454×1766 1.04 MB

I scroll down and open the artist:

Artist Level.png2454×1766 444 KB

And then check out the suspected album:

Album Level.png2454×1766 600 KB

I’m happy, so I enter the artist or album name into the Roon search and happily listen.

If I don’t find the artist, I would check the Jazz New Discovery and then the Purchased folders.

Hope this helps.

112

I buy multiple copies too.
But what troubles me about hinging on the directory structure is that it is a tree, which means each album had to be in one location. Is Bitches Brew under Jazz? Or Funk? Miles and Monk at Newport, does it go under Miles Davis or Thelonius Monk? Sviatoslav Richter at Carnegie Hall, does it go under Sviatoslav or Beethoven?

We were talking about search. Yesterday my wife was in the hospital and was loopy from the medications. She saw somebody being interviewed on TV and said, he looks like that guy, in the 30s, with the big lawn, George. What the hell? Oh, wait, there was that book, sleek guys, mansions with lawns down to the water – but then I had a brain freeze and couldn’t remember the title or author. So I typed into my phone “green light at the dock” and sure enough, Great Gatsby and F. Scott Fitzgerald! Now that’s a great search. Remember before search, we never found out what we were thinking about.

This is a good goal.

Find “dum dum diddle dee, DUM DUM DUM”…

113

I think you can sing or hum to Sound Hound?

114

The one thing I’ve noticed in my senility is that I am very consistent, Miles is always Jazz! :wink:

115

My biggest problem is finding my glasses, nothing can be done if that fails.

Russ

3 Likes
116

True. But what about this? I’m not a vibes guy, but Trane made this great album with a vibes player, whatsisname, Bags. Where is that? Under John Coltrane? Nope. Under Bags? Nope. What is Bags real name? If you are not a vibes guy you don’t remember Milt Jackson, so if it is in a Milt Jsckson directory it us hard to find.

But in Roon, I can type BA or COL or TRA and it’s there.

1 Like
117

Exactly the same searches can be carried out in Roon without requiring any storage dependent structure.

Artist/Focus-Genre-Jazz
This gives a display of Jazz artists that can be sorted alphabetically, most played or album count.

Once the Artist is found, the albums show up, together with a section for albums in Tidal that are not yet in your library.

If you don’t recall the Artist you can look at Albums/Focus-Genre-Jazz and sort by date added to see recent additions. You can create a New Discoveries tag and go to that.

There is facility in Roon to filter by location with Focus-Inspector-Storage Location. This is limited to the top level of a folder added to Roon, but it is how you can readily bring up just the files from a friend’s USB etc.

One reason not to add folder browsing is that people may default to using it instead of discovering and becoming familiar with the more powerful Focus/Bookmark/Tag tools.

You can replicate any existing directory structure in Tags as follows:

  • Add relevant folder to Roon (this can be a sub-folder of an existing Roon folder) in Settings/Storage

  • Focus on all albums in that folder with Albums/Focus-Inspector-Storage location.

  • Further filter those albums as desired

  • Select all albums (right click, top left menu)

  • Triple dot menu/Add to Tag

  • Remove folder from Roon.

It’s clunky because storage location is a clunky paradigm, but once you’ve got your tags set up you can just tag new albums as they arrive, regardless of where they are stored.

1 Like
118

As I mentioned earlier I really don’t understand the reticence to allowing for a browse by folder, doesn’t even need to show album views. It would be useful in the scenario I described, useful when looking for files that didn’t import, etc.

As I wrote earlier, I am not very inclined to plough through albums to tag them. I do tag new entries but I would rather browse the folders than invest time tagging. Lazy, perhaps but the file structure on my server already reflects the information I use. It is also a mnemonics issue. I do recognize things based on location when words fail.

That said, I do use Roon’s metadata extensively, the ask was for a very specific use case not easily addressed otherwise. That’s why I bought a lifetime license. For me this need is a once in a week or two occurance for about 20-30 album plays during a typical week.

119

That’s funny I just said earlier today we need this feature in 1.4 :slight_smile:

120

Erm, Roon will tell you this already. No need to go looking for them:

Roon 247.png801×700 63.3 KB

121

Yes, it was just recently added.

I still don’t understand why there is such strong push-back. Vendors should always be receptive to clients who use their product but not in the way imagined. I bought Roon because of the server/end-point architecture. That is far superior to other solutions in the market.

Personally I have not been overwhelmed by the reviews and metadata setup. The reviews can be quite silly, they don’t exist for a fair proportion of my catalogue for various reasons (non-US and oddball albums) and the metadata does not seem intuitive to me. I find it easier to drop albums into a structure that I created and understand rather than spend time tagging things. This is especially true with classical and jazz.

I believe that the Roon folks are trying to understand my position but the community seems to take a rather prejudiced view of the issue. It’s pure preference on my part and reflects how I have been organizing my music since the 70’s. Note that I am not such an old dog that I can’t learn new tricks. I am setting up a GIS system for a nuclear facility which is completely new technology for me. But when I get home, I just want to plop on the couch and listen to music, no muss, no fuss.

In software solutions the more paths to a goal, finding an album in this case, the more people will find the tool useful. That will lead to better pickup and revenue. Photoshop is a great example, it has many, many ways to do the same thing. Some work for photographers, others for graphic designers. The more a vendor tries to force an idiom on their clients, the more clients will walk (iTunes for one).

That said, I find that the Roon folks are very open and responsive to client requests. I corresponded extensively with the developers over the missing track issue prior to them coding the solution mentioned above. Strangely it’s the community that seems to be in a bit of a straightjacket.

1 Like
122

I think it’s somewhat true but I’m sure there are plenty of Roon users who love the object and metadata approach that aren’t really resistant to other modes of use. I say we forgive the fanaticism since that is also to some extent helping to drive the development of this fantastic product. Perhaps they are just concerned that other modes of access will ultimately cause Roon to evolve away from what they love, or they just want resources allocated elsewhere.

But I do agree that folder-style access will be useful. As mentioned, what I would really like is the ability to play a file not indexed into the database, which then requires a windows explorer style access mode. Frankly, I’d be just fine with drag and drop FROM windows explorer.

What I want more, though, is a way to focus based on custom metatags within files. I have a lot of investment in that and it would help me control Roon’s occasionally out-of-control random play features (i.e. I already spent time tagging files to exclude things like 20 minute Frank Zappa voice recordings - I don’t want to have to do that again).

Great product though. I’m hooked.

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