Bypassing RAAT?

Is there a way to bypass RAAT and just use Roon as a browser to feed tracks and/or albums to a player?

Not by user choice in the software, I think. Some Roon selected manufacturers (like Devialet, Linn) use other protocols but that’s managed by the software internally.

Out of curiosity, what benefit are you looking for by using a different protocol?

Thanks

HQPlayer

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Yes you can send to hqplayer
https://kb.roonlabs.com/HQPlayer_Setup

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Thanks for the suggestions, but I want to avoid any signal processing done by Roon or any other DSP software like HQ Player. I prefer the sound that comes out of my Bluesound Node 2 when streaming directly. But this means I can’t use Roon to manage queues and playlists or browse through Roon.

Ah well… No solution to be found then. So be it.

Roon by default will output a bit perfect signal… DSP is only performed if enabled / configured by the user.

RAAT (Roon Advanced Audio Transport) … it is used send the audio to network connected devices. Other than for grouped zone synchronisation it leaves the signal “as is”.

If you look at the Roon signal path, it details all the stages of the audio transport and what if any DSP is beinging applied.

Hope this helps, if not feedback with specifics of what you are trying to achieve with Roon.

Roon is sending PCM to the Bluesound. Maybe the difference you are hearing is down to the Bluesound’s use of DSP? I think Bluesound applies signal processing whether you like it or not.

As a general rule I don’t use DSP. However, my Bluesound Pulse Flex benefits from some tweaking in Roon.

Feed how?

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Well yes, obviously my Bluesound Node uses DSP. After all, that’s the point of a digital source in a hifi chain: to convert the digital input to an analog output.

My qualm - if it merits the word - is that there is an audible difference in analog output between input sent through Roon and input processed by the Node 2 itself pulling in the signal.

This shouldn’t be happening if Roon really does nothing but transport the signal.

Most of the time this does not bother me, but with very detailed source material the output from the Roon transport sounds as if loudness compression is applied. It sounds just a tad muddy.

Not a really big deal but a little annoying at times because I have to stop Roon playback, go find the source material in the Bluesound app and begin all over again.

That’s not what is mean’t by DSP. DSP is not the same as digital to analogue conversion; it is the manipulation of the audio signal, e.g. parametric EQ, speaker setup etc.

Roon will send a bit-perfect PCM (or DSD) signal to an end device when DSP is disabled; the likely difference is how the Bluesound processes PCM vis- à-vis a supported file format. Try enabling sample rate conversion in Roon (PCM power of 2.)

Tried that once, nearly sprained my shoulder scrambling for the remote to mute the awful sound coming from my speakers :grimacing:

Like I already stated: I really don’t care for Roon’s “improvements” to the signal.

Seems like “bit perfect” is another bit (scuse the pun) of Roon hyperbole.

To be perfectly sure that my ears do not deceive me, I ought to register the actual waveform coming from my speakers in both playback scenarios and overlay them, but that might be going a bit too far for a minor annoyance.

I’ll just stick to not using Roon for the tracks and albums I think sound best when not fed to the renderer through Roon.

This statement is erroneous. Roon sends a bit perfect signal to the endpoint. Nothing unique to Roon; ask Google.

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I use the same Roon as everyone else and everything sounds amazing on my system. MQA Studio assures bit perfect transition. If it wasn’t perfect, this wouldn’t work.
Just curious why your Roon is different?

I don’t use any of the user configurable DSP in Roon, I let Meridian work there magic on the audio signal Roon supplies.

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Gentlemen,

Let’s try to stay realistic here: there is no such thing as a bit perfect stream in a networked environment. Every connection, no matter how stable will drop packets, will have to send retry requests and so on…

Even when reading from a CD or DVD there will be errors. This is why the checksum was invented.

And Roon does alter the signal: it applies bit conversion when the volume levelling option is appplied (just look at the signal path information) .

Admittedly volume levelling is one of the most difficult goals to achieve and I must say that Roon does a remarkably good job with it. It just muddles up sometimes with excessively complex music and that’s where my Bluesound Node 2 does a better job by itself. In my opinion, that is.

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Bit perfect does not imply that no bits (packets) needed to be re-tranmitted. Google ‘bit perfect’ for a proper definition.

It sounds like DSP processing and not RAAT (which is just a tranmission/networking protocol) is at the root of your discontent.

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You seem to be completely missing the point. Bit-perfect means that the audio chain doesn’t change the bits.

Clearly, you are using DSP here–you stated earlier that you wanted “to avoid any signal processing done by Roon…” That’s why you aren’t seeing bit-perfect in the Signal Path.

Surely, if you are comparing Roon/ RAAT with the native app for streaming, you should start with a level playing field?

Dopped packets does not equal information loss, they will be retransmitted. If a network transport was not bit perfect then you would never be able to accurately copy data from one computer to another, and you clearly can. This is solved problem, and is proven every time you copy a binary file over a network connection. A retry request will not affect the bits that arrive at the end point. In any case any well configured network should not drop packets either.

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I have verified Roon as bit perfect when DSP is disabled (including volume levelling off) using my RME UFX studio audio interface - here I am able to capture the exact bitstream (as it can sync itself to an external clock and perform an exact capture) and use a program to compare sample by sample with an original FLAC file on NAS.

I can also do the same in my DAW as well where is it easy to see by means of null cancelling that the sample streams are identical.

It would be odd/pointless that the node 2 would process audio from Roon differently its own internal audio sources.

Also note that if the sound level resulting from Roon source is different to that from the Node, then you brain will tend to favour the loudest one (assuming normal listening levels) - perhaps the one without auto levelling enabled or maybe making a different levelling choice? The difference in level can often by non-obvious (faction of a dB), but most will favour the loudest.

When I used to do audio mastering and wanted to A/B the sound of a tweaking to compressor or limiter settings I would have to be very careful to match the perceived loudness or A/B to avoid incorrectly favouring one or the other for exactly this reason.

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Well, I know it sounds quite strange, but I also hear different quality of sound when I compare TIDAL tracks streamed direct to BluOS card vs. Roon->BluOS card. And I have switched off any DSP processing in ROON. Still the sound from ROON to BluOS card is somehow flatter and the background is not as dark. See my post: BluOS MDC sound quality vs. Roon.

I’m planning to try HQPlayer on Roon Core (Mac Mini) and USB connection to NAD M12. I just need more time to experiment.