Can’t enjoy music I don’t own

I actually had a Tidal fail to log in phase last night and so I was limited to my Vinyl and my by now completely ripped CD collection via Roon… boy was I happy to not be limited to streaming and the limitation to my own collection via Roon made me realize that Roon actually is an amazing piece of software - with or without Tidal… it even helps rediscover your very own collection…

I had hours of fun skipping through my own music… decided to give my hard copies an own Tag and I suppose I’ll be going there quite often…

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I’m using Qobuz more and more and found myself wondering will I need/want both Qobuz and Tidal or will Qobuz (presuming the rumours about Roon integration are true) suffice. I struck me that even considering this thought means I’ve passed a rubicon of sorts. I’m quite happy with the 96/24 version of the White album on Qobuz, I don’t feel the need to buy that box and last Christmas it would have been on my list.

Giving Little Stevie a run through in 192\24, very enjoyable, no ownership desire though!

I will still buy CDs at gigs and s/h most likely, it’s not an either/or decision but certainly I’ve moved past Tidal/Qobuz being merely for “discovery”.

.sjb

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If it makes you feel any better, you don’t own the music you think you own, either. :slight_smile:

You are granted a license to play the music you purchased.

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This is I believe more a generational issue. What does it mean to have vs to own? I like to own my music too. Never bought music iTunes, buying a singe track always felt like only buying a single chapter from a book, even purchasing downloads feels incomplete to me. That said, I have no problem payingTidal a fee for access to music that they licence. Clearly this more a psychological issue then it is about the music.

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I ‘own’ quite a bit of music I don’t like. Wonder what’s worse…

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Go to QOBUZ. or HDTracks. You can buy and download every album on the market in HD Quality

No you can’t, not every album on the market. I have a running list of albums I know exist but are not available for digital download from anywhere available in the US (Qobuz is not here yet, so I can’t check there). For example, none of the John Zorn/Tzadik albums. When I have a sufficient backlog, I order a whole stack of CDs (aving shipping costs) and rip them.

Yep, but you still don’t own it. The electricity analogy is a non sequitur.

Yes, that’s why I buy the 16bit or 24bit hi-res download. No one can stop access to the music you own. And I think it sounds better stored locally than via Tidal.

You wanted to say that in this cas the artist doesn’t get more but the 100% he asked for, correct? Since he was fully rewarded on the inital sale.

If you tend to look from another perspective upon it, I would like to buy your car, as long as you would promise to pass on half the amount I would pay you to the original manufacturer. while that one also was rewarded in full when he sold the car.

You can also buy Windows unlock codes nowadays since judges had to pick up this question since Microsoft also wanted to stop this … an as funny idea, to make money multiple times.

What’s important. There’s no right to keep a copy in case you sell a once bought media, no matter if there’s music or a software unlock code on it. Since when being sold it simply entitles the owner for usage not the one who was able to make a copy and resell it. And since so … the larger the digital library gets here, the more CDs and vinyls sit in the shelf behind and besides me … not since being played that often, but since simply being the physicyl items which do provide the rights.

The artist got money on the original sale of the CD. If I buy that CD second hand the artist gets no more. If I instead stream the artist gets something over and above the initial CD sale. People bang on about artists getting ripped off. All I am saying is streaming rather than buying second hand gets them more.

In your opinion.
In the context of your mail, I was specifically replying to your comment about losing internet, these days it’s becoming like losing electricity, ie so rare as to become inconsequential as an argument. Just IMHO, of course :slight_smile:

I think we are being distracted by the royalty issues. But it’s more of a cultural and availability phenomena, imo.

Most of us are of a certain age where we experienced music consumption previously in 2 states, either physical media, records and CDs, or cassettes, or live. The former was relatively vastly more expensive and therefore we really needed to get value for money and enjoy, cherish and memorise every facet of every albums we purchased. This becomes a mental ownership as the albums became imprinted in our memories clearly and unambiguously, so we can go back to our mental vault and pick out, anytime, when we fancy some Blues, say Stevie Ray Vaughan - Texas Flood, or some great Jazz… Wayne Shorter - Speak No Evil, and so on. These albums are mentally owned in our minds.

We are now living in an environment where music is on tap. It is just there…music. Excellent quality, no compromise. Millions of albums. Millions . And we are being bombarded daily with new recommendations from many sources, not least of which our personal streaming companies themselves, so each time we boot up our streamers, there ya go… another 20 albums flashing up and tempting us with fancy album art…

Now that becomes a really big problem for us because we are still of the mindset of not only physically owning the music but having a need to mentally own it too to be able to refer back to it later when we want to relive that enjoyment of prior listens. The sheer volume of the streamed music means that we are finding it much harder to accept the ephemeral nature of the sheer volume of music which is available and also face the growing inability to assimilate and mentally own what we are hearing.

I can listen to 20 new albums a day and whilst 1 or 2 will be noted as being good, invariably, they get washed down the river as new stuff is coming on all the time. That is becoming really very difficult for me to accept. But because of the new and exciting fresh stuff, I’m still ploughing on with new listens and the other good stuff which, even whilst I’m listening I am subconsciously saddened by this fact, is being washed down the river of good new music clamouring for my attention.

Really this is a major problem for us, especially those of us of a certain age who have not been brought up with the “new way”.

Back to the core problem… why I “can’t enjoy the music I don’t own”; the OP’s problem… ownership in the context of the OP, implies paying a massive premium to have a physical copy (by this I also mean unlimited right to store on HDD); in some cases, an entire month of streaming for 1 album. And that payment forces us to invest more time in specific paid for albums, and forces us subconsciously therefore to enjoy them more.

Now… app creators can help this problem by offering much better facilities for tagging and curating streamed music. Roon is good at this with the tagging function. There’s a whole lot more which can be done to help, but the whole essence of dealing with millions of available albums is currently hopeless generally. Tidal doesn’t even allow you to search within favourited albums, which is laughable, forget trying to keep track of good albums along the way and why, on the whole.

This exacerbates the whole problem of ownership, mentally, thus pushing us back to purchasing specific albums, as a sort of permanent marker for “good albums”.

So much more can be done, but developers are hopelessly ignorant to the whole new world of possibilities we have here with streamed music.

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I am definitely old school. I’m used to owning and I am emotionally attached to owning. My first LPs were bought with babysitting money or from my meager salary of $.75/hr. As you might imagine, I couldn’t afford new music very often, so the old was listened to over and over and over again. They were precious! That feeling has persisted so whether needed or not I still like to own.
I was an opera or classical music buyer from the beginning. I quickly learned it was the sort of music where familiarity brings more and more appreciation and then love. So being forced to listen multiple times because of unfamiliarity and relative poverty was a good thing.
In today’s world of millions of choices available relatively inexpensively, particularly with a subscription, it’s all too easy to consume a lot of music but move on quickly and then not develop the familiarity that brings true enjoyment.
Sadly, I rarely listen with full attention anymore, being distracted by email, news and Facebook on my iPad. As I write this, The Magic Flute Video plays on the TV and I don’t watch and only half listen.
Restating the obvious by now, if I really like a piece of music, I want to own it. With classical and opera the artists and conductors often make important differences, particularly favorite singers. As often as not, my favorites are not available to listen to, so I like to own for that reason too. At least subscription services give me the opportunity to listen ahead of deciding to buy, saving me from making a mistake buying something I might find I don’t like.

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Yes, I do it all the time (hear it on Tidal, add it to my library and in a couple of days buy the download or CD.

I see music I love as a permanent part of my life and couldn’t have it be so easily lost. I was reading the newspaper this morning and something about The Who caught my eye, pretty soon I had The 24/96 Tommy playing loud and clear, cover to cover. If I didn’t own it it would be the first time in my life since 1969 that I didn’t.

Just how it works for me.

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Excellent analysis…:+1::+1::+1:

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Ah - let me put it differently then… I have trouble enjoying music “that I really like” and thats actually available as 1. Vinyl or 2. digital (be it CD and/or download) before I actually own it. Say one of my fav artists puts out a new record and I already know that I`ll buy the vinyl release eventually… then its hard for me to enjoy the album prior to owning it by streaming via Tidal… sort of ruins the experience for me. Also, if I find new music I really like (yes, often via Tidal) - I do tag it and add it to my collection in Roon - but once I really come to like it, I know that I will eventually end up buying it… then I usually stop playing it from Tidal.

Reason also being, that music is an really essential part of my life/lifestyle and that includes going to shows/concerts, going to bars/clubs, going to/through record stores and thus also collecting music…

… for me there is a strong connection between these things that make a certain lifestyle… obviously, if a record is not available in any format other than stream via Tidal/Qobuz, I still enjoy it without owning.

It`s just a feeling I have about how I can enjoy music the most… obviously Roon has opened up a new way to enjoy digital - but still it does not keep me from buying the stuff I love on Vinyl and/or even download…

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This, for me, is about human behaviour and yes, it is the lack of attention when presented with multiple choice that bothers me too. My solution is for Roon to run on ROCK / Intel NUC in my living room. So for general Office use I deliberately bought a Mac-mini which lives away from my main listening room. If I have an open laptop whilst listening to music I find (as I cannot multi-task) my attention is distracted.

So by way of illustration, I cannot walk around an art gallery or museum wearing guide headphones. Similarly why go to a concert and film the show on an iPhone and never look at the footage again?
In addition, retention and recall when watching TV news is abysmal whilst single source Radio is much better.

Sleeve notes (LPs/CDs) work because they are relevant and concise. I do hope Roon can improve digital sleeve notes in the future and upgrade the search function to the modern era (it’s currently at the Ask Jeeves level) so I spent less time looking at a screen and more time listening.

I have gotten over buying cds. However, I worry that Tidal,which we know is not financially secure, could go under. If that happens, I don’t have a list of my Tidal” favorites” anymore. Is there a way to get a printed list of favorites without having to type the list myself? If I can’t do that, it might make me go back to buying cds.

Select all your tidal albums in Roon and export them to a file.

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