Can't seem to delete certain albums

Core Machine (Operating system/System info/Roon build number)

ROCK 1.7/505 on a NUC 8i3. Library on external SSD connected to NUC via USB.

Attempting to edit using an iMac, also on 1.7/505.

All connected via ethernet.

Description Of Issue

A box set in my collection (the complete Shostakovich Symphonies set conducted by Rudolf Barshai) came out all wrong when I originally imported it - some discs grouped together, some not, some called just ‘Barshai’, some called other things.

I tried editing them in Roon to sort it all out, but in the end I decided it was all getting a bit tedious (15 symphonies over 11 discs), and I thought I’d try deleting the lot and importing it all again to start from scratch.

But now Roon won’t delete the albums. When I try, it says ‘No tracks’. When I try to play any of the tracks, it says ‘Too many failures. Stopping playback’.

Yet the albums obstinately show up in the album list, and going through settings - library - clean up library doesn’t get rid of them. In fact, it shows 0 files to clean up under any of the clean up categories.

So I tried going straight to the drive itself to delete the files (via Finder on the iMac - Go - Connect to server - IP address - Connect as guest). That way, I could re-add them from a backup, and start from scratch again. But then I’m told that I don’t have permission to delete the files. So I change the file properties to unlock them, try again, but am told the files can’t be deleted because they’re in use.

So I seem to be left with the poorly tagged ghosts of my files, but none of the music, and no way to make them bugger off.

Any way I can sort this out? Thanks in advance.

Hi @David_Hunt,

How is the external drive formatted?

Is there any change after a reboot of the Core machine?

Move the external drive to a different computer and then delete files. Also, verify the format on the externaldrive. It should be exfat

Thanks for the replies, chaps.

Doing it by removing the drive and plugging into another computer, plus a restart or two of Roon, seemed to enable me to get rid of the ‘ghost’ versions in Roon.

But when re-importing the albums, they still showed up incorrectly - most importantly, several of the discs are missing. I’ve forced rescans, rebooted the NUC, to no apparent avail.

All these files worked & played fine in my pre-Roon setup (using Minimserver on a NAS). And if I go to the files in Finder (with the drive now connected back up to the NUC, so as above, via connect to server etc) then I can find and play the missing files in Itunes. So I’m positive there’s nothing wrong with the files themselves. But in Roon, nothing.

As for format, the external drive is formatted in case sensitive Mac style. That doesn’t seem to have stopped thousands of other files working fine. If I reformat to exfat and then re-copy the files to it, will that a) solve the permissions issue and b) work ok with my Roon database backup? I’d rather not rush into reformatting the drive if it’ll scupper all my edits etc.

I can understand the apprehension. That is why
If I was in a similar situation I would get a new external drive, format it exFat, copy all the files, then use the new drive and save the old one as a backup. That way nothing is lost.

The issue is that HFS + formatted drives can have issues with Linux or Windows.

Spend another £100+ on a new drive when I just spent out on this one and the NUC etc? No thanks, I’d rather sit through doing all the editing again if need be, haha!

Will try it and report back whether it fixes the issues.

Ok, so I’ve reformatted the external drive to exfat (a bit of a nightmare, tracking down the one jpeg that crashed the transfer over a capital letter!) and restored it from a backup.

The good news is that this seems to have fixed the issues around permission to access files, and the Roon database seems to have taken the change in its stride.

The bad news is that it hasn’t sorted out the problems with this Shotakovich box set.

So I had a lightbulb moment and tried Settings - General - Show hidden albums. And hey presto, there they all were. This was strange, because I’d never hidden them in the first place. But anyway, I proceed to edit the problem album properties - click unhide album. Go back to settings, turn off show hidden albums, reboot NUC for good measure, and…

They’re all still hidden. I can’t seem to unhide them. I could just leave show hidden albums switched on forever, but that’s not ideal. It’s also a bit irritating to search for Shostakovich and have the exact same box set show up from Tidal, all perfectly arranged!

Any ideas for what to try next?

Right, I merged all the discs, now that I could find them all, and Roon correctly figured out that it was the box set and tagged everything accordingly.

So I de-selected ‘show hidden albums’, and the previously affected discs still seem to show up in the new box set view.

So problem solved, though the root cause is unclear, so I don’t know what went wrong/what to do differently if it happens again.

Hi David, two separate issues. The permissions issue was the drive and would have continued until you reformatted. Now, you should not have issues moving files, deleting files, or having “ghost” albums that will not go away. :+1:

The box set issue is a side effect, I think, of how Roon handles box sets that might contain single released albums. Currently, the work around is to do what you have done. Handling Box sets better is one area the Roon can definitely improve upon.

Personally, I always run with Show Hidden Albums set to ON. Besides showing albums that have been specifically “hidden”, it also shows all versions of the album that would normally be only seen under the “Versions” tab. So, lets say you had 3 versions of “Dark Side of the Moon”, normally only 1 would be shown and the rest reside under the Versions Tab. With Show Hidden Albums ON, you would see all the versions in your library in the Album view.

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Hi Daniel. Actually I’d say there’s a further issue, with two questions - why are albums which I haven’t hidden somehow hiding themselves, and why can’t I unhide them by clicking on unhide?

The hiding functions don’t seem to be working as intended, and that’s what caused my issue in the first place (i.e. if it hadn’t been for that, I wouldn’t have started messing with the albums in question and come across the deleting problem and so on). OK, trying to fix it through this thread has highlighted some things along the way that I’ve been able to solve, which is a good thing. Thanks for the help, by the way. But the underlying cause it still there.

So I’ve got a solution to my specific instance of the problem, and that’s good. But it’d probably also be good if a tech person can put hiding behaviour on their list of things to have a look at.

Hi @David_Hunt,

Was this album considered a duplicate of the other? When we consider an album to be a duplicate version, these albums are hidden by default and placed under the Versions tab, which might be why it was hidden without you manually doing so.

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