Chopin Nocturnes: 9 Works or 19?

Content you’re reporting an issue with

I have two complete collections of Chopin’s Nocturnes in my library. In Arthur Rubinstein’s performance (RCA Red Seal), they are grouped by Opus:

In Stephen Hough’s performance (Hyperion CDA 68351), they are listed individually:

As you can see, one consequence is that, while Roon is aware that I have other recordings of individual Nocturnes in my library, it is completely unaware that I have two complete sets.

Is this content from local files, TIDAL, or Qobuz?

These are local files. Here are the file tags for Op 9 #1.

Description of the issue

Roon should choose one way to group this set of compositions and thus be capable of recognizing that both Hough and Rubinstein are performing the same works.

I suggest you tag Hough’s performances with WORK (COMPOSITION) and PART (MOVEMENT) tags. This should work.

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  1. That shouldn’t be necessary; Neither album was tagged with WORK/PART.
  2. Tagging the tracks on Hough’s album (and checking Prefer file under Multi-part Composition Grouping in the Metadata Preferences) changed how the tracks on Hough’s album are displayed. But it did not change the fact that Roon doesn’t recognize that Hough’s Nocturnes and Rubinstein’s Nocturnes are the same pieces. I.e., looking at either album, Roon does not indicate that I have another rendition of that piece in my library.

Sometimes in Roon, what you think shouldn’t be necessary finally ends up being necessary. Metadata issues are frequent in Roon, and often very tricky to fix. I really believe you should try tagging Hough tracks with WORK/PART, using the WORK titles as they appear on the Rubinstein album (and on Allmusic). The fact that Rubinstein album does not need it is irrelevant here, because it is a different album which is indexed differently inside Roon server that the Hough album. Go figure.

Regards

I did that, and I reported the effect: it changed the display of the tracks, but did not succeed in detecting the presence of Rubinstein’s rendition of the same pieces. Moreover, it changes what other recordings of individual Nocturnes in my Library Roon “knows” about.

Here is what Roon displays when I “Prefer Roon”:

Note that it “knows” that I have 3 other recordings of Op 9. No. 2 and 2 other recordings of Op 27 No. 2.

Here is what Roon displays when I “prefer file” (using the same WORK/PART tags as they appear in Rubinstein’s recording):

Now it knows that I have two other recordings of (both parts of) Op 27 (neither of which were detected in the other display).

As I said, as far as Roon is concerned, Hough and Rubinstein are playing two different collections of pieces called “Nocturnes”, and tagging the tracks on Hough’s album with WORK/PART doesn’t fix that.

I have both the Rubinstein and Hough Chopin Nocturne albums in my collectiion. If I take the Rubinstein albums as a reference, and tag Hough performances using WORK/Parts similar to those on Rubinstein, here is what I get.

For Op. 9


For Op. 15


For Op.27


I have shown redults for Op.9, 15 and 27, but the same holds true for other Ops. Rubinstein and Hough just match.

For the Op. numbers common to both Rubinstein and Hough albums, the two albums just match. But the Hough album contains works absent from the Rubinstein album. The fact that the two albums are named “Chopin Nocturnes” shoud not be understood as holding indentical list of works.

I just do not understand why you are saying that “Hough and Rubinstein are playing two different collections of pieces called Nocturnes”. This is clearly not the case. Please explain yourself.

Regards,
André Gosselin

I showed you the screen shots of the track listings both for Hough (using either the “prefer Roon” or “prefer file” metadata preference) and for Rubinstein. Each shows other matches for recording in my library of some subset of these works. But they don’t show the same matches and they don’t show each other.

This will be my last comment, as this discussion is getting ridiculous.
I just do not understand your attitude. The Hough and Rubinstein albums match correctly for at least Op.9, 15 and 27. Hough albums contains works not on the Rubinstein album. And you insist that

Go figure.

They do for you. They don’t for me.

This is not a matter of “attitude”.

Clearly, something is different in how Roon has identified one or both of these albums for you than for me.

OK, sorry for that. As another suggestion, please go to the drop down under “Recordings by popularity” and see if the “Only complete recordings” setting is active. If so, deactivate it. Numerous people including myself have been fooled by the behavior of this switch. Roon too frequently considers complete recordings to be incomplete. This issue has been reported many times before.

Regards
André

Hmmm. OK. That seems to “work”. Evidently, Roon doesn’t consider the Hough recording “complete”. Even better, recordings in my library of individual Nocturnes now show up where they should.

(Op 72, No. 1 is still not recognized as the same piece, but that’s a minor matter I think I can live with.)

Thanks!

Since you seem to understand the obscure setting in Roon which (apparently) affect which Library albums it will display under what circumstances, perhaps you could help me reconcile a similar discrepancy:

versus

Do I have two albums of Kalevi Aho’s work in my Library, or five?

In my opinion you have 5. Maybe the presence of only 2 albums in the composer window has to do with the way composer metadata are entered in the missing 3, but this is only a guess. As I do not have any Aho albums in my library, I do not think I can help you very much here.

Regards,

For the three local albums, the composer information is entered identically. Only one shows up under Kalevi Aho → Discography. I don’t have any control over the metadata of the two Qobuz albums, but they also look identical to me. One shows up; the other doesn’t.

I’m pretty sure this problem isn’t unique to that composer. But thanks anyway.

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