Comparing the T2 and X1 - what should I listen for?

Well Linn spent a decade of R&D perfecting the Klimax DSM. Their streamers probably would be more affordable if they, I don’t know… just kinda copied a competitor’s product and built them in China.

Did you not mention the name of the company for legal purposes? Y’all make great products but don’t the designers feel a bit ashamed that after 7 years they still can’t create a unique design?

I’m not trying to be a jerk but it’s just weird you’d even mention Linn’s new streamer considering the history.

5 posts were split to a new topic: MSB Premier DAC with a network renderer

Not sure why you’d be posting this here - if you can’t find a deal on a product not covered by the thread that’d be your problem.

Maybe not - but lots of people succeed in that regard without even trying.

Get a better amp? Hard to believe the two sound even close.try the optical ethernet connection.

I must admit I have never understood what salespeople mean by “warm” as far as sound is concerned…

Lumin basically cloned Linn Klimax. That’s a massive dick move. Still waiting for Lumin to develop something original.

Lumin had DSD supported since day 1, and the T2 and X1 support DSD512 nowadays. The other brand isn’t even technically Roon Ready, and does not support MQA (for those who want it). Leedh Processing Volume. And you already know, fiber network. Plenty of their users use our native app, a few years ago their company even sent a change request to us such that their users can continue to use our app.

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Sounds like a new topic.

@Strojo what made you pick the X1?
I wonder because until now I mostly read the T2 its price quality ratio would make it the better pick. You making the other choice makes me curious. What made you tip over?

Strojo i have really hard time to follow you , as what you say in this post about Lumin T2 and Lumin X1 , to you sound almost identical…which for me is really hard to believe as i myself have had the Lumin T1 and heard Lumin T2 , Lumin S1 and Lumin X1 in my own system as well as at a dealer event…and i have to say that to my 57 Years old ears . the difference is substantial between T2 and X1 . if you hardly can tell a difference i dont understand why you decided to go with the much more costly X1 .
For me the Lumin X1 has so much to offer in terms of soundstageing and also bringing singers vocal intentions or feelings into play at a hole other level than what the T2 offers…the same goes for instruments like guitars…and my system is not state of the art. I am using Accuphase E-470 with Focus Audio FS788 loudspeakers my power cords and distribution is NordOst Frey 2 with QB4 soon to be QB8 speaker cables and interconnect are Yter.

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I’m not going to listen to an X1 based on Peter’s response, because when I last heeded his feedback, it took me all of ten minutes to purchased the T2 after listening to it vs the D2, and I don’t want to spend more money on digital.

No doubt the X1 sound better. I wish my Leben CS600x supported balanced inputs so I could compare the T2 in balanced mode, but only my headphone amp works with balanced sources.

Thanks Flemming, at 3x the price I would expect that too.

I already get compliments about my current sound with the T2. I expect with the X1 people start moving in.

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Lumin didn’t ‘clone’ a Linn KDS - they produced something unique.

As Peter @wklie has already stated, Lumin were on-board with DSD from day-one. It took Linn until their Katalyst range in 2017 to even acknowledge DSD. And as for MQA? Linn still don’t support it.

I have owned both Lumin and Linn streamers. I currently use a Linn KDS/3, and a Lumin A1.

IMO Lumin is the better of the two brands with respect to streaming. Period.

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@wklie, does optical ethernet sound better than the copper? Or does it depend on some other factors?

Many users (including those not using a Lumin) found it to sound different.

When we were introducing Lumin X1 we did a demo and A/B comparison. Some (more) users preferred the optical network. Some (less) users preferred copper Ethernet.

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Many thanks @wklie for the info, it’s very helpful, especially from the expert who makes the best streamers.

With the T3 out and now replacing the T2, it might seem odd to resurrect the thread. But I did what said I wouldn’t - I listened to an X1. I wasn’t looking to replace the T2, rather I was needing a second streamer for a second system, and I wanted to know whether I should just buy another T2/T3 or see what the next tier meant.

I listened first to a DCS Bartok. That was impressive as it should be for the cost. Even with a generous concession, it was above the cost of an X1. Plus the upgrade to current spec was another $6k. I came home and my T2 still sounded good enough to avoid the 5x difference an upgrade would cost.

I made it back to the Lumin dealer, as I was curious if the T3 was the better path. The dealer had a demo X1 and I figured why not listen. We started with the X1. Wonderful, musical warm, spacious. And effortless - siblants weren’t at all bright but felt more accurate and less harsh. More time, body, presence. I heard similar improvements as I had with the DCS Bartok but not having them side I couldn’t pick a favorite.

Then we switched to the T2 (he had no T3 to demo). I expected a massive gap and was pleasantly surprised to see the T2 was not embarrassed. Had the same general characteristics and I was nearly resolved to buy his demo. But I switched back to the X1 and played the same cuts and there it was - that sense of effortlessness I usually hear on my high end vinyl system. Once heard it can’t be unheard. It was a closer call than when I compared the D2 against a T2, where the gap was pretty clearly in the T2’s favor. Here, I had a harder time seeing a 3x+ improvement in sound vs the price tag.

Then the dealer threw out a pleasant surprise- he’d take my Sony HAPZ1ES in trade along with a super competitive price for the demo X1. Done. It was a pretty easy “okay I’ll do it.”

At home I had the chance to again compare the two. With the X1 I have zero issues. It sounds as good as my similarly priced (at retail) vinyl rig. Where the T2 can be a tad bright on siblance, the X1 is just ahhhhh. A lot more micro detail and instruments have more body and space. All the issues I may have had with the T2 are absent.

The X1 chassis is noticeably heavier than the same sized T2, and that’s before you add the weight of the linear power supply. I have to also believe the LPS contributes to the improvements I hear (especially given my experience moving to an LPS on the D2). I really wish there was an option to add the X1 power supply to a T2 which would make the cost delta only 2x and potentially bring the performance gap closer.

The T2 is now happily making music in my second system and the X1 is thrilling me on the main system. Life is good! Happily my situation made the jump to an X1 easier and left enough for me to spend on my room acoustics treatment.

So now I can happily say Peter has now twice contributed to my move up the Lumin food chain.

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Great story, and congrats on your X1 - I’m sure it sounds fantastic!! I really must not demo one :grimacing:

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Leave your wallet at home!

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Lots of listening in the past 48 hours. The more I listen, the more the X1 reveals its strengths. Lots of “wow, that’s gorgeous” and goosebump moments listening to tunes. My boy who is now getting into hifi didn’t know I changed anything but quickly heard the difference and asked right away “what did you change - the voices are amazing”.

My main setup is Devore O/96, powered by custom 300b 8wpc amps and a 300b preamp (custom built by a designer for Bottlehead using high end Mundorf and Vcap caps and high end nickel Magnaquest transformers). Cables are Acoustic Zen absolute for IC and speaker, and various Cardas and Foundation Research AC cables, plugged into a Niagara 1200.

In no order of priority I hear the following differences b/t the X1 and T2:

  • nearly any digital glare is absent in the X1. This may be the “sizzle” referenced about the T2 in comments above. To me, the X1 sounds far closer to vinyl than any DAC I’ve heard recently.
  • instruments and singers have more palpable dimensionality/body/weight. Choral groups are 3d especially, and piano has much more body and believability. And kick drums - wow. Cantate Domino “Oh Holy Night” and the acoustic version of Black Puma’s “Colors”, the choral singers are stunningly present in all detail.
  • bass is superbly defined, and “more” present. That part was surprising that I was able to increase the weight and presence just by swapping the X1 and gives more 3d impression of recordings.
  • more air around instruments and singers. I can pick out more detail in spoken and sung lyrics, no smear of detail. The sax on Barbara Lynn’s “You’ll lose a good thing” just shines. So does the trumpet on Allan Toussaint’s “Blue Drag.”
  • hearing just so much more going on in a recording, especially brushed drums, hammers on piano string, guitar resonance, and cymbal decay and attack. The guitar tone and echo on Green Day’s Blvd of Broken Dreams at the opening just jumps out. On Natalie Merchant’s Wonder (the acoustic one on the Paradise is there album), you can just see her right dead center, and on Carnival from the same album, pretty sure they are playing bass drum using a box drum, it sounds so real.

What I’m not hearing:

  • soundstage is not appreciably much deeper, though a tad wider than the T2. I think the T2 and X1 are pretty similar on that factor. But…the placement and location of things on the soundstage is better. On the “Hey Nineteen Steely Dan track”, the guitar on the left hangs a good 2 feet outside and in front of the speaker. Nice!
  • the T2 is not at all embarrassed - it sounds great (and is doing wonders in my second system now, a great match of Leben 600x and Graham Chartwells).

This experience only strengthens my belief that the LPS is playing a big role (and surely the output stage is quite an upgrade). I absolutely wish I could wire up the X1’s LPS to the T2 - my guess is that this would narrow the gap.

I’m pretty thrilled by the difference, and at the same time thrilled that the T2 wasn’t embarrassed.

Here’s the dilemma - given the pace of digital innovation, $14k is a lot to commit - for me, the differences are clear but I would’ve paused but for a great price/trade in. I also would’ve shopped a bit to compare the various similarly priced competitors just to hear what they do different. The technical support and ease of update for Lumin is a huge factor of why I’ve stayed in the family, as well as the close integration with Roon.

I would’ve liked, for only curiosity sake, to compare the Bartok 2.0 (not the latest Apex). DCS is also known for great long term support, but I can’t say the upgrade path was especially enticing (it was $6k on top of the $15k for a new old stock non-apex Bartok).

If you can afford the X1 new or used, it’s audible and worth it. I was dubious about diminishing returns but no longer. I just finished up Lana Del Ray’s “Hope is a Dangerous Thing” from the NFR album and if that doesn’t cement the X1 for me, nothing would.

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Forgot to add - on the T2, there was a consistent (if sometimes subtle) difference between Tidal MQA and Qobuz versions, favoring Qobuz. On the X1, not so much - MQA sounds pretty good. That was interesting and I wonder if this has anything to do with how Lumin manages their MQA implementation.

I am not yet using any Fiber implementation, but super curious about exploring the use of a ethernet to fiber converter and cable (pretty cheap upgrade). If anyone has done this and has recommendations of specific gear, please post what you used.

I did read about upgrading the umbilical cable b/t the Lumin and its power supply, not sure if I am keen to fork $800 to try it out, as that exceeds what I am willing to pay for any power cable (except for the Foundation Research, which incorporates filters).

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