Constant Drop Outs

Support
1

Core Machine (Operating system/System info/Roon build number)

Roon Nucleus/ Revision 1.7 (build 537) stable

Network Details

Broadband provider is Virgin Media (based in the UK), I am using their Hub 3.0 as a modem only, connected by ethernet cable to a Google WiFi Mesh, with one of these devices in NAT mode, whilst there are two other Mesh Devices, both acting as bridges.

Basic configuration of connections:

  • Cable to house connected directly to Virgin Media Hub 3.0 (set up in modem mode) (located in lounge)
  • Ethernet cable from Virgin Hub to Google Mesh NAT (located in lounge)
  • Ethernet cable from Google WiFi Mesh NAT to Music Room Switch (located in music room)
  • Ethernet cable from Music Room Switch to Roon Nucleus (located in music room)
  • Ethernet cable from Music Room Switch to TotalDac Streamer
  • Google WiFi Mesh NAT to the two other Google WiFi Mesh devices (set up as bridges) is by WiFi. These two devices are set up in the Kitchen where my Bluesound audio device is and upstairs in the office where my Naim QB Muso is located. The Naim Muso is located in the lounge where it is connected via WiFi to the Google WiFi Mesh (set up as a NAT)

My audio devices are:

  • Main Music room is a Totaldac Streamer providing the main source to my Audio Note system. This streamer is connected directly by ethernet to my Virgin Media 3.0 Hub (Modem mode)

  • Bluesound Pulse (Mk1) connected via wifi to one of the Google Mesh (bridge) devices

  • Naim Muso (Mk1) connected via wifi to one of the Google Mesh (NAT) devices

  • Naim QB Muso (Mk1) connected via wifi to one of the Google Mesh (bridge) devices

To control these devices I use the Roon app on either my iPhone or iPad.

Description Of Issue

For the last week/10 days I have been experiencing reoccurring drop outs whilst listening to music via Roon. These random occurrences have no pattern to their frequency or duration. Initially I first noticed these issues when listening to Radio Paradise on the Bluesound Pulse. As I investigated across my system I found that the same issue was occurring. Initially I thought it was a Radio Paradise issue (they had posted that they were upgrading their server capability in Europe to cope with the increased demand), however, with more time on my hands this weekend, I have varied the sources of music from different radio stations and also music held on my own network. The same issues were evident whichever source. Sometimes it would play without issue for a number of minutes, on other occasions the issue frequency can be measured in seconds, with short, almost like buffering issues.

I have reinstalled all the firmware on my audio devices and have also reinstalled the Roon Nucleus and rebooted my network, all with no positive effect. When I play music ‘directly’ via either the Naim or Bluesound apps there are no issues experienced. Because of this I have concluded that:

  1. The issue is not as the result of any broadband service issue (Virgin Media)
  2. Nor any Bluesound or Naim audio device firmware.
  3. This leaves just questions concerning a problem with my Roon network, for which I am hoping you can help.

I hope the above information is helpful.

Thank you in advance

Update

This morning I powering up my Main System in the Music Room, where my Roon Nucleus is directly connected to a TotalDac Streamer. There were no drop outs. Immediately prior to this I had been trying my other audio sources (all connected via Google WiFi Mesh) and was experiencing reoccurring drop-outs.

Since running the Main System however there have been no further drop outs on the Bluesound audio source. I have yet to test the other Naim audio sources. I made no adjustments to either my network or audio devices. Could the solution be as simple as running my ‘directly connected to Roon Nucleus device (TotalDac Streamer)’ has ‘reminded’ my network of its purpose, or is this just a coincidence and the drop-outs will return.

Update 1530hrs on 26 May 2020

I spoke too soon! The issue has returned with a vengeance and running in the Main System does not seem to have any effect. Looks like it was a coincidence.

Grateful for any thoughts as to what may be causing this issue.

3

Does it happen on the main system as well?

4

Hi Ged,

I’m just running up my main system now (Music Room) and will give it a good hour or so (Issue is far more frequent but just in case). I’ll reply with my observations.

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I was wondering about the nat Vs bridge mesh connections. Roon can be a PITA on network connection versus almost everything else and if it works on the main it might narrow it down (or not!)

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Hi Ged,

Thanks again. I have been running the main system (TotalDac Streamer which is connected by Ethernet to the Google WiFi Mesh NAT device) without any issues for the last hour. This would suggest that the issue may reside, as you mentioned, in the how Roon is interacting with the mesh connections.

I am no networking expert, but can follow instructions, if you have any thoughts as to how I might go about solving this issue. It is worth mentioning that this issue has only started in the last 10 days so not sure what may have changed.

Thanks again,

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@Jonathan_Simpson
I’m also having problems with a recent change to my network, with the similarity being the addition of a new Google Nest Wifi ‘installation’ -

Network problem: MS Surface Pro 7 (Remote) intermittent connection with Google Nest WiFi - and Core.

My problem is with occasional disconnection of my WiFi-connected Remote.
I suspect that the ‘Mesh’ having its own subnet might be the culprit.

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Hi Roland,

Thanks for your message. Whilst not exactly the same issue, having read through your post there do appear to be similarities concerning the Google Mesh. In my case, the issue only emerged in the last 10 days or so, and to the best of my knowledge none of the hardware in my network system or audio devices has been upgraded during that period. As per previous message I do not have advanced tech knowledge so have not made any changes to my Google settings, but can follow instructions if someone is able to provide some advice.

Best of luck with the search for a solution.

Jon

1 Like
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Hi Ged,

Ok followed your advice a ran my main system and I powered up my Main System in the Music Room, where my Roon Nucleus is directly connected to a TotalDac Streamer. There were no drop outs. Immediately prior to this I had been trying my other audio sources (all connected via Google WiFi Mesh) and was experiencing reoccurring drop-outs.

Since running the Main System however there have been no further drop outs on the Bluesound audio source. I have yet to test the other Naim audio sources. I made no adjustments to either my network or audio devices. Could the solution be as simple as running my ‘directly connected to Roon Nucleus device (TotalDac Streamer)’ has ‘reminded’ my network of its purpose, or is this just a coincidence and the drop-outs will return.

Thoughts?

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Hi Roland - see my update in original post for an update which appears to have stopped the issue occurring. In short, I ran up my main audio source which is directly connected to my Roon Nucleus and since then I have had no further drop out issues. I’m not sure if this is just coincidence, however, if this approach applies to your setup it may be worth a go.

Best of luck,
J

1 Like
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Update 1530hrs on 26 May 2020

I spoke too soon! The issue has returned with a vengeance and running in the Main System does not seem to have any effect. Looks like it was a coincidence.

Grateful for any thoughts as to what may be causing this issue.

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Just checking. Is this correct? It’s at variance with later narrative.

In any case - can you cobble together a wired network using just the Hub 3?

Not suggesting this should be the final configuration, just diagnostic.

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Hi Andy,

Thanks for your message and apologies for any confusion. My first update, where I mention that the problem appears to have been resolved by running up my main system was a ‘call to early’ with the issue returning later this afternoon, hence my second update.

As to your suggestion, this may not be so easy to achieve. I have been forced down the Mesh route due to the brick used in my old house being such that it prevents a wide range for my broadband source (Hub 3) which is located at the front of my house, whereas many of the audio devices are at the rear of the house.

The current configuration has the Hub 3 as a modem, connected to a Google Mesh device acting as the NAT for two other Google Mesh devices that provide bridges. This afternoon, using the Google app, I have assigned static IPs for the audio devices and also configured my Nucleus as a static IP. However, the dropouts persist.

One other option I have been considering is:

Connect the Roon Nucleus directly to the Hub 3 by cable. (currently it is connected via a switch to the Google Mesh NAT). By doing this, this will remove the requirement for a switch between the Google NAT and the two connecting devices, the Roon Nucleus and TotalDac Streamer.

Thoughts?

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I have been having a lot of drop outs since updating to build 537. Might be coincidental but have not had resolution yet. No dropouts when using the core USB to my main DAC but why would there be with everything on the core? Majority of dropouts occur with my main endpoint (sotm sms200 ultra) but i get them once in a while on all end points. Wireless can complicate things so I’m thinking you want to use a wired connection as much as possible.

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Hi Jon,

I think I have a clear picture of your network… I was trying to confirm that you have only one ‘thing’ plugged into the Hub 3 (in modem mode I think only one port is active), and then suggest a temporary configuration to see if eliminating the google mesh also eliminated the dropouts.

You should not need to assign fixed ip addresses. Unless you are really into networking, it usually seems to end in tears.

Sometimes issues such as you are seeing are the result of devices seeing two DHCP address servers if the original hub/router is still trying to provide ip addresses; obviously it shouldn’t be the case if you’ve set it to modem mode.

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Andy,

Thanks. I have since removed all the static IPs I tried this afternoon. What perplexes me is that for weeks there have been no issues, yet these last 10 days they have become increasingly more frequent. (initially I thought it might be Radio Paradise as during the lockdown that is all I have been listening too - but they have resolved their server capacity issue in Europe now and when I play Radio Paradise direct via either Bluesound app or Naim app there are no issues with drop outs. This coming weekend I will relocate the Nucleus in my network to run direct into the Hub 3.0 whilst it will still in modem mode. This will mean that the modem with have two connections, one to the nucleus and one to the Google Mesh NAT. This will remove the requirement for a switch in my music room, splitting the ether cable connection from the Google Mesh NAT between the current position of the Nucleus and my main source, the TotalDac Streamer.

I have been reading across the community and there appears to be a number of threads concerning Mesh and Roon issues, none with a singular solution. Looking forward, if this issues does reside with Roon I would hope it is resolved sooner rather than later given the increased us of Mesh technology.

Thanks again.

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Thanks Muel. Unfortunately in the old house I live in wired connections are difficult to establish without the need to dismantle large elements of the infrastructure or have ‘unsightly’ cable runs. An aspiration for the next house.

J

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Pretty sure this won’t work. Hub 3 documentation says only one port active in modem mode. I also have Hub 3, but my house is mostly plasterboard internally so the WiFi works!

You’re right that mesh can cause problems, but there are also many people for whom it just works. Don’t give up.

My suggestion would be to simplify as much as possible to see if the problem is resolved; then build back up and see when it comes back.

It’s also conceivably just a bad ethernet connection or cable - have you disturbed anything lately?

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Thanks for drawing my attention to the Hub 3 only one port in modem mode - I had not seen that. Looks like this weeked will be one of trying various configurations to see if any solve the issue. As well as building the network up piece by piece I’ll also switch which Google Mesh acts as the NAT. Instead I can run the modem connection to the Mesh in my music room which feeds the splitter that connects direct to the TotalDAC streamer and the Nucleus. The front room Google Mesh, currently the NAT for the Mesh would become a Bridge. By taking this route, I assume that at the centre of my house, where the Music Room is, the wifi signal will be strongest. The only snag with this approach will be the proximity of wifi signal to my Audio Note system, something which the AN dealer advised I should avoid.

I’ve seen elsewhere on the board others have spoken with broadband provider who they claim have made tweaks their end which have resolved issues. You should like someone with more understanding of networks - might this be worth a try?

Thanks

Jon

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Can’t claim ‘expert’… but doesn’t sound like a Virgin Media problem; and I wouldn’t like to bet on your chances trying to explain Roon to the VM helpline!

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The same thought regarding the challenge of explaining Roon to VM crossed my mind also. :slight_smile: