Double disc album tagging

How is it posible to get Roon to recognize, tagg and list 2 discs as disc 1 and disc 2 of the same album.

Hi,
Have a read of How can I ensure multi-disc sets and box sets are identified properly? in the RKB.

The result may still be hit or miss. For example I recently added the Amadeus 3CD album to my music library after using XLD to rip the 3 discs. I correctly identified the album with the title and followed the format advised in the referenced post.

Yet, roon added the 3CD album as two albums: One with Disc 1 & 2 and the second album for Disc 3 as if it was a separate album unrelated to the easily identified 3Disc Amadeus album: Amadeus: The Complete Original Soundtrack Recording Box set.

I chose not to merge the third album concerned that the result might screw up the first album’s organization. Though at this point, I may just make the effort. It’s odd, because I have several multi-disc albums that roon has correctly added with all the discs in one album.

Think I’ll see if merge is successful, after all.

Best,
Richard

I just merged the two albums to include all three discs. It took six (6) seconds and added the third disc correctly.

In the words of Emily Litella (Gilda Radner’s character), never mind (smile).

Best,
Richard

Hi Richard,

Very pleased that merge albums worked for you here but I would raise a word of caution about using it repeatedly. There is an insidious bug associated with merge (or fix track grouping) that occasionally strikes and has the effect of involving an earlier merge target in a later merge operation, resulting in a terrible mess. It recently struck another user and is undergoing active prioritised investigation.

When I was ripping multi-disc CDs I was able to work around the bug by restarting Roon before conducting any merge operation. That seemed to purge the old target from Roon’s memory. I would definitely recommend doing that when conducting multiple merge operations.

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Hello Andrew,

Aha! Thank you for the admonition. I will follow your good counsel. I was lulled into finally solving one of the issues.

What worries me, though, in addition to the concern you’ve made me aware of is that after merging the Amaedus 3Disc album successfully. Those two additional albums returned after the merging. In other words, three albums: One with all three discs (correctly); one with disc 1 and disc 2, and one with a partial list of tracks which I didn’t pay attention to but was probably a partial disc 3. I hid the last two albums just mentioned. But it was disconcerting after the successful merge to see the other two return.

I hope roon finds a solution because, I am spending far too much time cleaning up by correcting, then having to repeat the corrections, then…and so on and so on.

Again not complaining. Merely providing feedback and expressing my concern for what I regard as a cautionary tale. I love happy endings (smile).

Thank you again for your caution to me.

Best,
Richard

Do your Amadeus discs all have disc number tags 1,2 and 3?
If they do then they should all show correctly as such in the merged album.

Hello Nick,

To be clear, YES! As I just posted, the newly merged album now contains Disc 1/Disc2/Disc 3. And clicking on each disc, the order of tracks and the number of tracks are correct.

After the successful merge initiated by me in roon of the two albums that roon created the first time it added from my music library where there are presently 3 albums with the same album title ending in Disc 1 of 3, Disc 2 of 3, and the third Disc 3 of 3, roon added those 3 albums but as only 2 albums and in the following configuration: One album contained Disc 1 and Disc 2; the second album contained Disc 3 but didn’t designate it as Disc 3 in the album title – just an album as if it were a single album with the same album title but NO designation as Disc 3.

But that’s not all, before the merge and after roon added what became two album for the first time, roon ALSO added in addition to those two albums the first time, two additional albums (DUPLICATES) with the same album title but with different configurations, i.e., different number of tracks. For a total of 4 albums.

I decided to hide those extra albums that were duplicates as I was concerned about deleting them AND accepted the two albums with the same album title and cover art, and to reiterate, one with Disc 1 and 2 together and the second album with same album title and cover art but nothing to identify it as the original Disc 3 of 3.

Seque to the merge I decide to conduct. The merge succeeded in combining the two albums into one album with all 3 discs in the proper disc number, track order and track titles. Great.

BUT, inexplicably, in addition to the merged album, roon also duplicated the original two albums I had just merged. And this time one album had Disc1 and Disc 2; and the second album had what may have been Disc 3 but with incomplete number of tracks.

I chose again to hide those duplicates as I was not willing to risk deleting them.

What triggered roon to repeat the duplication after a successful merge? There are many examples presently of even single albums added by roon from my music library and at the same time duplicates of the single album some times complete and sometimes only partially complete. My remedy has been to hide them, But they return if not during the same session the next time I launch roon. What triggers roon to duplicate an album? And again after making the corrections.

I just reviewed my latest additions to the roon library, and there are duplicates from earlier additions to the roon library that I corrected that have reappeared. My music library that roon watches is correct in its configuration. roon is duplicating a single album properly identified with metadata I personalized that matches any search with Google. I may add additional metadata to the album title, i.e. Hybrid SACD to distinguish one edition of several editions of the same album i.e. A hi-res download from a vendor like Pro Studio Masters or HDtracks or Pono or… Followed by the sample rate, i.e. HDt192 or PSM88 (88.2). BUT even if there is nothing but the correct album title of the album in my music library and roon adds the newly ripped album from the watched folder, roon may add a duplicate as well. I correct that and hide the duplicate. And in another session after launching roon, the duplicate reappears.

This routine is not only unacceptable, it’s increasing in frequency. The odd thing is that there’s no consistency. Multi-disc albums added may result in correct addition with no duplicates. Single albums as well are added correctly. And those albums I have to correct, stay corrected. Yet other albums corrected, are changed back and must be corrected again. And again, and…

I only use iTunes and roon. I can change the album metadata in iTunes for an album and roon automatically mirrors the correction. Wonderful! Yet, iTunes never changes what I add or if I correct, the corrections remain corrected.

So there is plenty of work to be done by roon for getting these issues cured. I take it that my experiences are not unique. This is offered as feedback to help roon with fixes etc.

Best,
Richard

The recurrence of seperate or fragmented albums after successful merger is very odd. Let’s drop a flag for @vova or @brian2 to investigate.

Very odd. And it continues to happen. It’s not album dependent. But it’s NOT consistent. What adds further to the mysterious behavior is checking my music library to determine what if anything would trigger such behavior, and I can’t find anything that I am aware of as a trigger.

Best,
Richard

Whilst you perform a merge, are you checking the activity spinner ? I see sometimes with merges that data shows as being written to the database.
I wonder if you are acting quickly to hide dups etc when they are WIP during the change.

Next time you see it, instead of hiding stuff, can you try just a “force rescan” of the watch folder? See if that does anything different.

Out of interest, where are your files stored ? USB drive, internal HDD, NAS ?

Good idea. And I actually did that, intuitively. It made no difference. But I still continue to do it.
Best,
Richard

I store my music library on a Promise Pegasus2 R6 18TB Raid 5 drive that is rock solid, fast, reliable; and I back up the music library to a Pegasus R6 12 TB Raid 5. The third R4 8TB Raid 5 is for other duties. I have had Promise Pegasus R Raid 5 drives since 2011. Not a issue ever. People report problems with their NAS, external USB drives/FireWire drives (or not). I have no issues with any of the software players or with TIDAL HIFI re clicks, pops, and assorted issues often posted that may be triggered by storage devices or not.

If I make a change to my music library on the Raid Drive, roon mirrors that change automatically AND immediately. The synergy between the two is excellent, in my opinon.

Just being as direct and thorough as I can.

As for watched folders, given my synergy, should I only watch the music library on the Pegasus2, iTunes Music. And I also watch iTunes Music Library which is where I edit the additions to iTunes Music Library and the metadata. Could this confuse roon? And trigger “duplicates”?

Best,
Richard

It certainly could be a cause of duplicates. If you are watching two places and Roon sees two versions you may have hidden duplicates previously. When you then edit one of them it would trigger the un-duplication which could cause your observed behaviour.

Next time you see this happen, right click on a track in each version you see and confirm the track location in ‘Track Info’ (top of screen). That will be useful to note.

I have similar devices for main store, backup etc.

I would certainly recommend making just one master set your primary watch folder. Remove all possibility of accidental dups.

Is your Pegasus drive on the network or connected via USB or Thunderbolt ?

Thanks

Nick

Thank you for the feedback. Promise Pegasus Raid Drives are connected by Thunderbolt Lightning cables. They can be daisy chained if desired up to six separate Raid Drives. Network has nothing to do with the Drives. As my Dac is connected via USB, and FireWire drives do not compare to Thunderbolt drives in my opinion, and Raid 5 is an excellent method for storage borne out sinc 2011, it has been consistently the best choice I made. Of course a drive can fail but the other drives make up for the faulty drive which should be replaced and then the Raid system will rebuild the new drive into the configuration whether a R2 (2 drives), R4 (4 drives) or R6 (6 drives). Highly recommended. But expensive.

Furthermore, I made some changes to the iTunes Music stored on my Pegasus and to the actual iTunes Music Library (with iTunes opened). I also checked tracks by highlighting and clicking on track info. Slowly, I am “rehabilitating” my roon library such that duplicates are disappearing (even though both folders are still being watched).

There is, apparently, an open sesame routine that prompts roon into correcting itself after my corrections. I am being even more fastidious and I thought I was about as fastidious as any OCD person could accomplish (smile).

Thank you for offering helpful hints and methods for checking and conforming. I did some time ago disable one of the two folders, but I noticed it was better to have both iTunes Music on the Pegasus and iTunes Music Library (the one that opens when iTunes launches) where I can make metadata corrections/changes. Now I am conforming both folders when I make a change in iTunes Music Library to mirror in iTunes Music folder/artist/composer/title album/tracks.

I appreciate how complex this can be with a progam that provides such a swatch of information about music, artists, composers, lyrics, multi-disc albums etc. I personally have no familiarity with what is involved in roon’s succeeding in creating a UI/UX/EM (enjoyment of music) where the synergy must be complex and expecting my singular approach and impose the results I want on roon as if that’s all that is needed i.e. for roon to mirror my synergy requires I find the magic to make it work better. ironically, though, when I do make changes to my albums located in the iTunes Music Library (iTunes’ program launched), those changes are actually made immediately.

Enough said by me.

With appreciation,
Richard

If you have the same content in iTunes and a.n.other folder then I seriously would have Roon watch just one of those.

Make edits to the master and use a sync program to copy across from that one to the other.

I am pretty sure the weirdness you see is Roon trying to manage edits whilst seeing 2 of the same. You apply edits to only one copy.

OCD and digital music collections are good friends (I know :wink: ). The trick is to find the THE easiest way to manage it.

Amen.

Yet there are inconsistencies in the sense that one formula works and for other examples it doesn’t. For example the Stravinsky 3CD box set with each disc entitled the same full album title ending in Disc 1 of 3 etc. Confused roon. But changing each album title to the name of the singular composition, i.e. Stravinsky: L’ Oiseau De Feu Disc 1 of 3, Le Sacre Du Printemps Disc 2 of 3, Perséphone Disc 3 of 3 and roon accepted that instead of Stravinsky: L’ Oiseau De Feu; Le Sacre Du Printemps; Perséphone Disc 1-3.

OCD or not to be, that’s a question?

Best,
Richard

When I click on the link to find out how to deal with double albums I get the message that “I don’t have access to that topic” even though I am logged in and paid up!

My discs come up in Audirvana as double , or triple discs no problem, with tagging done in YATE, why can’t Roon see this and respond appropriately?

Have you named the files discnumber-tracknumber

Or filed them
Album/cd1
Album/cd2

?