Volume control vs DSP Volume in Yamaha R-N1000 - change quality of sound. I have a Yamaha R-N1000 receiver with a DAC. It uses an ES9080Q DAC. In Roon, volume changes in device volume mode don't work, only in DSP volume mode. However, DSP volume changes the DSD audio transmission to 384 kHz PCM, which I'd like to avoid. I'd like the audio to be transmitted losslessly through Roon to my DAC in DOP mode. Is it possible to improve the driver for my R-N1000 receiver so that the volume control function works in Volume control mode, or if I change the DSP volume to 0 dB, the audio from Roon isn't changed to PCM? Of course, in DSP volume mode, changing the volume to -1 dB or -5 dB doesn't change the way Roon wants. Generally, when listening to music like 192 kHz FLAC, enabling 0 dB doesn't change the quality. The audio is transmitted to Roon losslessly. Only when I change the volume to, say, -1 dB does the quality change. Otherwise (0 dB), the dsp volume function works like volume control. Can you help me with this problem?
mjw
(Here I am with a brain the size of a planet and they ask me to pick up a piece of paper. Call that job satisfaction? I don't.)
2
DSP cannot be performed on DSD, which is why conversion to PCM takes place.
The answer to both questions is no. Roon can only use hardware volume control if the device exposes this feature via the interface, and in the case of the R-N1000, this is S/PDIF, which is one-way and offers no signalling. Likewise, DSD must be converted to PCM for DSP functions to work.
Thanks for taking the time to write in and share your issue with us!
Your signal path is interesting here - Roon never actually sends DSD/DoP to the Yamaha. It converts the DSD to 352.8 kHz PCM beforehand, regardless of the volume setting.
So in your setup, the DSD→PCM conversion isn’t being triggered by DSP Volume, it’s being triggered because the Yamaha endpoint itself (via ALSA driver) does not advertise native DSD or DoP support to Roon.
Can you please review and share a screenshot of: Roon → Settings → Audio → [Your Yamaha zone] → Device Setup → Show Advanced → DSD Playback Strategy.
If “DSD over PCM (DoP)” is selectable, try enabling it, that would let Roon send DSD natively. But if it’s not available, your Yamaha’s input/driver simply doesn’t expose DSD capability to Roon.
Roon and Yamaha work without any problems in the Convert to PCM and DSD over PCM strategies.Initial dCS strategy doesn’t work. In the latter strategy, I’m transmitting audio from the RoPieee (end point) via USB to the Yamaha R-N1000. Attached is a screenshot of the settings you requested.
Thank you for the detailed explanation and for sharing your setup information.
Just to clarify — there’s no difference in audio quality between 0 dB DSP Volume and fixed Volume Control when playback remains at full scale. In both cases, the signal is transmitted losslessly as long as no digital attenuation is applied.
It’s very likely that the behavior you’re observing is caused by the RoPieee ALSA driver not exposing native DSD/DoP support to Roon. In that situation, Roon automatically converts DSD to high-rate PCM to ensure playback compatibility.
You might want to test this by connecting your Yamaha R-N1000 directly to another Windows or Linux machine running Roon Bridge or Roon Server. If DoP or native DSD playback becomes available there, it would confirm that the limitation comes from the RoPieee driver layer rather than from the Yamaha itself.
Please let us know the results of that test — it will help us narrow down the root cause.
mjw
(Here I am with a brain the size of a planet and they ask me to pick up a piece of paper. Call that job satisfaction? I don't.)
6
When using a Raspberry Pi running Ropieee via a DAC hat, I see this in the signal path.
DSP volume — conversion to PCM precedes the RAAT logo as the server performs it. DSP volume control occurs at the streamer (Roon Bridge / Ropieee.)
Device volume — Signalling recieved by Roon Bridge / Ropieee, and controlled by Roon. DAC hardware makes volume adjustments. In this example, DoP is used over ALSA.
According to the manual, your amplifier supports the following via the USB DAC input.
USB DAC
Audio Format
( PCM 2-ch (44.1 kHz/48 kHz/88.2 kHz/96 kHz/176.4 kHz/192 kHz/352.8 kHz/384 kHz (16-bit/24-bit/32-bit))
( DSD 2-ch (2.8 MHz (DSD64)/5.6 MHz (DSD128)/11.2 MHz (DSD256), compatible with ASIO Native and DoP)
ALSA will, as I’ve shown, work with DoP.
However, I’m a little confused because you say you have the R-N1000, but Roon is reporting an R-N2000A. It would seem, from your Advanced Settings screenshot, that you have identified an R-N1000A. Which is it?
Hi,
I have a Yamaha R-N1000. When I connected my Windows PC to the DAC, the WASAPI driver appeared. There’s still no Native DSD mode. One interesting thing about the ALSA driver is that changing the DSP Volume doesn’t change the icon in Roon’s settings, and the sound remains lossless. RoPieee displays High quality instead of lossless. I want it so that when I set the DSP Volume to 0 dB, Roon thinks the Device Volume is set and doesn’t convert DSD to PCM. Now, when I play FLAC files in DoP mode, it’s fine. The sound is unchanged, as much as FLAC files allow. But with DSD, it immediately changes to DSD to PCM, regardless of whether the volume is 0 dB or -5 dB.
Is there a way to configure this for the Yamaha R-N1000? DSP Volume set 0 db means change strategy like Device Volume with out any changes. When DSP Volume set higher than 0 db set DSP Volume scheme and do anything like dsd to pcm 352.8 khz. Right now I must change from dsp volume to Device volume for listening dsd files without any changes of Bitrate.
Yamaha use Steinberg driver for ASIO sound. It’s possible to implement to Roon. Maybe in this time I see Native DSD features.
Perhaps my English isn’t good enough; it’s not my native language. Generally, the DSD signal is sent to the DAC without any change when the Device volume is set. My Yamaha display shows DSD64/2.8 MHz. When I switch to DSP Volume and set any volume, the sound transmitted to the DAC is changed to 352 kHz instead of 2.8 MHz DSD64. I care about DSP volume because I have an OSMC remote that can control the Roon/RoPieee volume. Of course, if I want 100% quality, I have to change DSP Volume to Device Volume, as the quality of the sound transmitted to the DAC doesn’t changes still dsd64/2m8 mhz. For FLAC, WAC, or non-DSD files, setting DSD Volume to 0 dB doesn’t change the quality, as it’s as if the function weren’t enabled.
mjw
(Here I am with a brain the size of a planet and they ask me to pick up a piece of paper. Call that job satisfaction? I don't.)
10
This is expected because it:s not possible to apply DSP to DSD.
If you want to send DSD to the DAC, you cannot use DSP. However, if you are concerned about Roon’s implemenration of DSP volume, this is unfounded as it is equal to anything in hardware.
I understand that my suggestion is impossible, so that when set to 0 dB, the DSD Volume function works for DSD files like the Device Volume function. I’m referring to an additional procedure that would allow the function to behave slightly differently in certain situations. Nothing is impossible in computer science
mjw
(Here I am with a brain the size of a planet and they ask me to pick up a piece of paper. Call that job satisfaction? I don't.)
12
But, when set to 0 dB, there is no volume adjustment, i.e., no DSP is applied to the source. As soon as you adjust the volume using DSP, DSD will be converted to PCM.
You can’t change this behaviour because it is impossible to change DSD (analogue represented using pulse-density modulation) volume using software without converting to PCM (analogue represented using pulse-code modulation) first.
If I understand this correctly, what @Bruno_Winyle suggests is that, when the DSP volume is set to 0dB, the signal path should behave as if there was no DSP volume whatsoever and not convert to PCM. In other words, 0dB volume should behave as if volume control was set to “Device Volume”. This way, they can use the DSP volume for convenience, but then, when they want to get a lossless signal, they just set the volume to max and then use the device volume knob, without going into settings.
mjw
(Here I am with a brain the size of a planet and they ask me to pick up a piece of paper. Call that job satisfaction? I don't.)
14
Currently, Roon is behaving as expected, and doing what the user-defined settings have defined. In reality, I don’t think this would be achievable without an interruption in sound, since DSP processing will introduce lag.
Yeah, that makes sense. I guess the OP would take an interruption over changing the settings, but probably nobody else would find it acceptable - unless there were another setting that would explicitly allow it.
To be fair, I don’t think the conversion to 352.8 kHz PCM is going to degrade the sound in any audible way. I bet this signal bypasses the ES9080Q DAC’s internal 8x up-sampling filter (marked with blue) and goes only through the IIR filter (marked with red) and modulation. Note that DSD also goes through the IIR and modulator, so you’re not really getting 100% “native” DSD playback anyway.
