Dutch & Dutch 8C Active Speakers

This is correct.

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Hi Victor. The HEDD 20s are very good speakers. Although there’s no way around the law of diminishing returns at higher price points, the 8c’s really should be a considerable step up. I’ve never seen the movie First Reformed, but the quote you shared makes a lot of sense. In line with that, what I may be able to help you with is the actual sound that’s produced in your room, but your experience and your opinion of that experience ultimately are entirely your own. Our main objective is for people to be delighted with their 8c’s, and we’re very happy that most people are. However, like with any other product the 8c is not the perfect speaker for everybody. Let’s get in touch and figure out what we can do to make you love your 8c’s.

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Hi Martijn, I should probably have reserved judgement, it has only been a month with the speakers and I only listen to the 8Cs on the weekends. I am hesitant to take you up on your offer because I actually agree with you on the minimal use of EQ. I came into this hobby late in life and it was audio first music second. I have no idea how a snare drum or bass guitar is “supposed” to sound like. My own instinct is that I am better off learning to listen neutrally rather than adding my preferred “hype” to the speakers. I do not regret purchasing the 8Cs at all, the specifications were exactly what i wanted for the space i had. Perhaps my expectations had been built up by the enthusiasm people had for it.

Please take @Martijn_Mensink up on his generous offer @Otanes. Room correction can be one of the biggest steps that can be taken to improve sound. You are likely not listening to “neutral” music because of room issues. The 8Cs are ideally suited to address issues like this and you should take advantage of this capability.

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Hi all, I have a pair of 8c’s arriving very soon and am trying to work through how to integrate a turntable into a system based around the 8c’s. I have a couple of questions for anyone who has tried the Roon beta software.

  1. with the roon beta software is it possible to have the analog in connected and switch between roon and the analog inputs?
  2. Is this via Lanspeaker, does it work ok?
  3. Does anyone have any other ways they have achieved mixing analog and digital with the 8c’s?

Thanks!

This is tricky due to the fact the solution you’d likely want isn’t available yet. @JD_M has been a beta user of version that supports roon via lan in the 8cs. He thinks it’s hands down better than going digital using AES/EBU (which is much better than going analog). Once that is released you could then go Roon via lan and turntable via a pre-amp with phono inputs and XLR outs and use Lanspeaker to switch sources. This is probably the ideal choice if what @JD_M says is true. BUT…I would not expect LAN support in the 8Cs to be released in the short term as its been expected for over a year and D&D won’t make any commitment on when it will be released.

Given this you probably need an alternative solution for the short (med?) term. I’m not aware of any network transports that have AES/EBU outs and an analog in (for the turntable). It’s possible they exist and if they do this would likely be the best alternative option but I don’t know of any. Maybe others can suggest something here.

Alternatively you could go this route (although more complex and do-it-yourselfy) and have access to your turntable from all your zones: Introducing Entrypoints, the audio entrance to Roon. I’m not sure if this is a high quality choice however…

Without any other workable short/med term option then you’d likely have one of a couple of choices:

  • A network transport with AES/EBU outs for Roon (going digital into the 8cs is better than analog if you’re starting with digital as it minimizes A/D and D/A conversions) and a preamp with phono inputs and XLR outs for the turntable and a XLR switcher to choose between them. This is probably the highest quality alternative since you stay digital with Roon into the 8Cs for the reasons noted and you stay analog with the turntable into the 8Cs and let the 8Cs do the A/D and D/A conversion. You would have to both switch sources with the switcher and use Lanspeaker to switch the XLRs between digital and analog input. This is a bit clunky but probably the highest quality short/med term alternative.

  • You could also pair a network transport with a preamp that has phono inputs and a DAC and go analog XLR to the 8cs. This is much simpler as you’d use the preamp for switching sources but then your Roon chain undergoes a D/A in the preamp, a A/D in the 8cs to use it’s DSP tech and then another D/A to go to it’s amp which is less then ideal IMHO.

There may be other approaches I haven’t considered but thought I’d provide some input for you…

Thanks Craig. That’s a great synopsis of my current options.

There is the MiniDSP SHD which has an A/D, is a roon endpoint and has AES output - so that’s an option.

I have a Lumin X1 mini which I will be using until the 8cs are Roon Ready.

I will look into XLR Switchers and see if I can find something that works.

I do have a preamp and decent dac so could also go analog in to the 8cs for now. But that still leaves me with most of my components and possibly worse audio quality.

Hoping that in the med/long term Dutch & Dutch come out with a hardware solution for switching inputs (between network audio and analog) and controlling the volume :slight_smile:

Glad to help. When you said you have a Lumin X1 Mini do you mean a Lumin U1 Mini? I’m not aware of a X1 mini. I’m using the U1 Mini for Roon with AES/EBU connections to the 8C. It’s very very good. If Roon ready 8Cs using LAN are better than that it will be awesome. I’m also using the new LEEDH volume control on the U1 to change volume on the 8Cs in a lossless fashion. Give it a try…

Yes, I have the U1 mini :slight_smile: . My mistake

I am also using a U1 Mini with AES/EBU connection to a MiniDSP SHD Studio and then AES/EBU to my 8Cs. I agree with Craig Palmer, the U1 Mini in combination with AES/EBU is very very good. And so is the SHD Studio as well. At first I used the Leedh control in the U1 Mini, but now I mainly use the volume control in the SHD Studio.

I am not sure that Roon over LAN to the 8Cs will be that much better than AES/EBU. I had an early beta version (1.4.37 I think) which played Roon over LAN to the 8Cs and from my memory (it was a while ago) I don’t recall a big difference from AES/EBU. As Craig says, the big difference is between analog and AES/EBU (or LAN).

Hello Nathan, As betatester I can confirm that:

  1. This is possible, switching between the selected input and Roon is done automatically. When Roon is not used, the selected input is active. Roon has preference over the selected 8c input (be it analog or digital). When you hit play in Roon, it plays music from Roon instantly on the 8c’s (if you played music on the inputs, Roon “takes over”). When you stop Roon, then after a few seconds the 8c inputs are active (again).
  2. D&D are working on a new app called Ascend replacing Lanspeaker (see also the release notes of the latest official firmware). My current beta setup uses a mix of Lanspeaker and Ascend. D&D are close to releasing a beta-Ascend-only version.
  3. I don’t.
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Great info @Jan_van_der_Meij . Love the auto source switching – that will be very useful. Can you elaborate on what Ascend brings to the table vs current Lanspeaker?

Hello Graig,

I’m afraid that I can’t at this moment. I currently work with a very basic version of Ascend. However, I have had a sneak preview of the functionality and design of the new app and can tell you that I am very excited!

Cheers, Jan

I think you’re holding out on us @Jan_van_der_Meij but ok…:slight_smile: I’ve been waiting for this for over a year so hope the end is near…

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Thanks for the info Jan - that is really helpful!

Ake - have you compared U1 mini directly into the 8c against U1 mini > SHD Studio > 8c?

Thanks all!

Hi Nathan, I use a Yamaha WXC-50 connected with digital coax > Neutrix > AES for TV sound and (occasionally) Spotify. I use Roon for ALAC from my NAS and Tidal through ethernet.

I have not had time to do that carefully. The answer to your question also depends on what you want to compare:

(1) U1 Mini with Leedh volume control > 8C compared to U1 Mini with Leedh volume control > SHD Studio (no attenuation) > 8C

(2) U1 Mini with Leedh volume control > 8C compared to U1 Mini (no attenuation) > SHD Studio (attenuation in the Studio) > 8C

Even though I have not made a thorough comparison I would say that the SHD Studio does not degrade SQ. And it functions as a digital pre-amp with all common digital I/O. If Lumin did something similar with the U1 Mini, that would be interesting…

At first I used the Leedh control in the U1 Mini, but I have gravitated towards bypassing the control in the U1 Mini and attenuate in the SHD Studio instead. But as I said, I have not had time do make a thorough comparison of the different alternatives.

When the SHD Studio becomes a Roon endpoint (very soon hopefully) it will be interesting to compare Roon > U1 Mini > SHD Studio > 8C with Roon > SHD Studio > 8C.

Have ordered a SHD so I will be able to do the comparison myself :grinning:

Thanks for the info. Really helped me make the decision.

Great! Let us know your impressions.

I have not been a believer in long breaking-in period except for speakers, but after installing the SHD Studio in my system I was surprised that the SQ changed to the better after a couple of weeks. I have no idea if it was the SHD Studio or the new AES/EBU cable between the U1 Mini and the SHD (or both) that was the culprit, but the improvement was, to my ears, real. I know that Lumin recommends burn-in 24/7 for at least two weeks of their products (but I don’t recall that I heard a big difference with the U1 Mini).

So this is a question for Santa aka @Martijn_Mensink have we for enduring this troubled year, been good enough 8C owner boys and girls to get a surprise from D&D this Christmas?