Entrypoints, the audio entrance to Roon, made the move to HiRes!

@Horacio_Lewinski @Bradley_Rank @Cosmic_Encounter

Unfortunately Entrypoints only run on Linux, also a Docker for Linux installation should be found in order to get the repository category displayed. This is what is meant by the note:

The recommended setup is to place a Raspberry Pi with an input HAT (soundcard) near the input device. On the Raspberry Pi you can install DietPi, configure the input HAT and install Docker + Extension Manager.

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This can be done if you connect a digital input HAT to the RPi, but be aware that the Audio Entrypoint only supports 44.1 and 48 kHz at 16 bits. Please check if the Parks Audio Puffin can output in one of these formats before shopping.

In case you are still interested in getting the Extension Manager running on Windows, there are some first checks described in this post.

I am running docker on QNAP. I do not have a raspberry PI. The Extension Manager is already running with in a Docker. I thought, I could install from the extension manager directly. Do I need another docker container for the entry points? Where can I download it?

Make sure that the Docker daemon is accessible by the Extension Manager, it should be in the volume list. At the command line the -v option is used for this:

-v /var/run/docker.sock:/var/run/docker.sock

The complete list with recommended options is at the Docker Hub page.

Based on earlier reports it seems that QNAP limits access to devices from Docker containers, it is for example not possible to access an optical drive connected via USB :frowning:

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Thank you Jan.

Extension Manager doesn’t appear among the running services in Windows. Should I continue to ask here, post the question in the thread you linked to, or start a new thread?

Here’s my setup and what I intend to do: Roon Core on Win 10 PC. Another “AudioPC” running Windows Server 2019 is connected thru USB to a multichannel DAC/ADC soundcard. I’d like to use the line-in and ADC in the soundcard to generate a digital signal (knowing quality will be limited) and route it to the Roon Core machine. Is this feasible?

thank you.

You cant use this extension on Windows it’s been mentioned already a few posts up and in the docs. Its Linux only and needs to also have docker installed and the extension manager have rights access to it due to the components used to make this work.

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Note on post 42 Jan mentioned there is a workaround for Windows, which I followed and my last post was referring to the thread Jan linked to.

Just sharing my experiences for anyone considering using a Pi Zero for this - Entrypoints does not work on a Pi Zero.

It took a lot of wrangling to get Extension Manager running first, but even once this is up, Entrypoints doesn’t work.

It may be possible with extra work, but I have switched to a Pi3 and all good now. Thanks for all the great work Jan.

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With “In case you are still interested in getting the Extension Manager running on Windows” I meant to give a suggestion on what you could try if you still want to run one of the extensions which are available for Windows. There is no workaround to run the Entrypoint extensions on Windows.

Thanks for the feedback. Is the installation already an issue, or doesn’t the Zero have the performance to do the streaming?

I use a Pi3B+ in my setup, maybe I should start creating a list with the working and not working configurations.

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The installations appear to succeed on the Pi Zero, but neither new service subsequently appears in the list of running extensions. Further troubleshooting may help, but probably better to steer towards a Pi3 or 4 for this.

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I will just point out that 16/192 input for vinyl input through a private internet radio station playable in Roon works for free with Icecast and client BUTT (I know, terrible acronym).

I too could not find a open source 24 bit client for a Icecast. But, I have shifted to use of (paid) HQPlayer, where I now have 32/192 input of vinyl and output with convolution filters at DSD512. Sounds really fine. JCR

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Ouch that’s pricey. How good is it what’s the latency like?

Latency on HQP is about 1/2 second, I suppose, even scaling to DSD512 with convolution. Really works well not only for digitized vinyl playback but also for general Roon playback. An infinite number of filter and modulator choices, if you like to experiment.

Latency using Icecast/BUTT was 5-6 seconds, when I was using that method. JCR

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Looks like hqplayer only supports a few ADCs though so limited in scope. I guess it also has to be connected to the server as well?

HQP is a server-based software, whether the “Desktop” version for Windows, which I use, or the “Embedded” version for Linux.

I think any ADC will work so long as the server has a sound card compatible with the ADC to take the phono preamp digitized output and input it into the server. For example, I use a Benchmark ADC1 analog to digital converter and then take the digital XLR output of the Benchmark into my server (photo attached) via a Lynx AES16e soundcard. Once in the server, HQP does its thing and then I can output to the DAC of my choice. JCR

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Already become more costly than I would plan. I’ll stick with analogue for now or use the this if I need to pipe it elsewhere.

The following documents are now available on the Entrypoints Wiki

Feedback is appreciated.

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I investigated what could be done to support higher sample frequencies and bit depths.

What can be achieved is restricted by the main parts that make up the Entrypoints system, being Icecast and Liquidsoap. Besides that I want it to run on as many Raspberry Pi models as possible, i.e. not causing stuttering audio and high processor loads on the older models.

Liquidsoap is the part of the system that captures the audio and encodes it as a FLAC stream. I experimented with different versions of it and used different methods for capturing and encoding (i.e. both internal and external). Everything in the Liquidsoap internals seems to be limited to 16 bits. The closest I could get to 24 bit support is by using an external capture program (tried arecord and rec) and an external flac encoder, but on my RPi 3B+ setup I could not get a stable stream, it was dropouts all over the place :frowning:

But, what does work is higher sample frequencies, on the same RPi I can stream 192 kHz 16 bit without dropouts :slight_smile:




Now is a 192 kHz 16 bit digital audio signal not something that you will find often in “the wild”, but the good news here is that an incoming 24 bit signal will be truncated to 16 bits and streamed as such (this is already the case for the current 0.1.0 version). This means that information will be lost but still the music can be streamed.

Let’s take the use case of Bradley Rank as an example:

According to their website this digital preamp outputs a 48 kHz 24 bit signal. When this signal is fed into an RPi with digital input HAT then it will be streamed as FLAC 48 kHz 16 bit.

What is next?

The next step is to finish the work on the Audio Entrypoint update. The upcoming version will support sample frequencies up to 192 kHz at 16 bit.

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Jan you can use ffmpeg in the later builds of liquid soap this in theory should support 24bit. I did experiment using ffmpeg to capture the alsa input and stream this to Icecast. Like yourself with a record it dropped out , it seems it’s not good at buffering the alsa input at all. Tried it on a pc and pi and got the same issues.

JB2 Radio station seems to be using the same combo as your plugin as their streams are 96/16 and 192/16. My experience shows that the bit depth is more important to sq than the actual frequency of the samples. My Naim Atom automatically digitizes it’s analogue input so it can be used in their multiroom systems and this is fixed at 48/24 and I have to say it sounds superb and sounds transparent to a pure analogue path. Unlike using the HifiBerry ADC. But then I would expect a + £2000 device to do a better job. Shame I can’t use it to send it to Roon.

Maybe if enough users request 24bit from Liquidsoap Devs they might listen.