Ethical streaming service?

Is increasing subscription charges the solution?

Both the subscription revenue and its distribution through the royalty system has to be considered. At the moment TIDAL pays out 75% of revenue in royalties to the labels. For Spotify it is 85%. Not much scope there. It’s a large part of the well publicized problems of the sector. In fact I would have thought that across the sector it was more likely that in order to increase the “pot” subscription rates will have to be reduced in many segments to drive subscription numbers.

But that still leaves the royalty system. Maybe it wouldn’t have mattered if streaming royalties supplemented mechanical royalties but that is not what is happening. Streaming royalties requiring millions of plays over public systems are replacing mechanical royalties that only ever required 10’s of thousands of plays in private collections. That is obviously not working for the vast majority of artists who don’t have superstar fan bases and that needs to be addressed in tandem as well. Divying up the available streaming revenue by proportion of “plays” sounds fair but that doesn’t provide an equivalent revenue stream for the 100’s of thousands, maybe millions of albums that only ever got an occasional spin.

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I would much prefer it if Roon would focus on metadata, user interface, and sound quality versus asking about what streaming services should charge. You should be an advocate for your subscribers, not the music industry.

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I spend a lot on CDs and hi-res downloads, on average >$250/month. I’d be prepared to pay a good fraction of that for a comprehensive service provided that I could deduct from the subscription the permanent downloads I choose to store for the indefinite future. Like demoing skis, you pay the rental and that’s deducted from the full ski price if you buy them.

Count me in. I’d pay $500 / year for an excellent ethical streaming service–ESPECIALLY if its integration with Roon was complete. So there’s my answer to your question.

On the other hand, I would have doubts about the market-viability of such a service. In the pos-Napster age many people have come to expect something for nothing–or for very little. I can only see this problem being solved by regulation, or labor action by musicians and their reps. Not likely I realize.

I think a tiered streaming plan would make sense. Pay $10 / month and get a limited number of plays per-song (or per-work). So, you’re paying to audition music. Pay $30 / month and listen all you want to.

I would consider $30-$40 per month, depending upon details.
If royalties were exclusive to artists play, better yet. If SQ, track availability, and interface with SOTA, would consider more $$$ per month.
Intriguing idea- lets hear more!

I’ll put this here lol

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Qobuz Sublime+ is 349 euro per year… If roon would support it I’d go for that.
I find this a strange question coming from a roon developer :face_with_monocle:

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i would not want to pay much more given the choice. Several subscriptions on the go for various services across different media and something would have to give.
If it was a matter of no choice and i needed to pay more in order to retain the very best available quality of music streaming content then probably yes i would have to consider it, to a point. Would need to understand more before being able to put a value on it.

Doubling the cost in the situation where there remain other ‘non ethical’ providers not going down that route continuing to charge less i do not see that working out.

I agree the business model of the big providers today is decidedly shaky and so if things are forced to change in order to pay the artists and avoid being sued for huge sums of money that could change the pricing approach by necessity across the board. The labels and artists will always feel entitled to considerably more however therefore this conflict is set to continue no matter what in my view.

http://royaltycalc.com

Perhaps. I just find it curious that some people will spend thousands, if not tens of thousands on gear, $500 for a lifetime Roon license, and yet baulk at $20/month.

Well I’d pay more… Qobuz Sublime+ would suit me well as I buy a lot from Qobuz

If I had the option I’d consider Qobuz as well for more a month. Trying everything in original Hi Res before purchasing the the stuff I love from them really appeals to me.

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Interesting, @joel! And a very good initiative, if it would become a reality! My answer though is no, because I like to own the music I love. I use streaming services like I used the cassette tapes: to discover music and decide which I like and which I don’t. But the most interesting thing I find: why you’re asking? What is the Roon team up to?:wink:

Because I think (and hope) that apart from a few oldskool weirdos like me, there might potentially be a huge interest in such a service, especially when well integrated with Roon! And this might make Roon more — if not completely — independent from the existing streaming services. So… very interested in how this develops!

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I’m a traditional guy, and would never spend more than, say, $30 per month for a subscription service. I like to know that what i buy is still available tomorrow too.
In other Words, i prefer to support the artists i like by buying their records in a physical format.
Call me old school, i don’t mind! :slight_smile:

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Again, why does Roon care?? I pay $20 per month for Tidal. What I would like to see is Roon offer more options for streaming services instead of worry about the ethics of what the services charge and what the artists get from it.

It’s clear the market has gravitated to $10-$30 per month for streaming and I don’t see anything changing that. Perhaps you can get another $10 per month for other features such as liner notes…

I think the right question needs to be how the revenue should be allocated along the value chain.

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I think some are mistakenly tieing Joel’s posts to Roon. I’m certain the topic was of personal interest to him only.

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Do you really find it surprising, though? Humans love artifacts. And many people define themselves through their physical purchases, which are driven by a host of factors, including aesthetics, novelty, etc. As we are witnessing with millennials and vinyl, there is something inherently seductive about owning stuff. So spending $10K on a monolithic amplifier that can be placed on display on a hi-if altar does not seem inconsistent with refusing to pay $20/month for a streaming service. Because spending that $20 provides you with the same undifferntiated mass of digital data that everyone else gets. There are no special limited editions or alternate pressings or picture discs. So while from one perspective, this situation is democratic and wonderful, if everyone has the same stuff that robs the aesthete/collector of his/her identity. In other words, it’s not about the money at all. In fact, I think it’s the people who have spent the most on their systems and music collections that are the least likely to want to fork over money for a streaming service.

Not to mention that a streaming service only really provides a benefit if you actively explore all of the content it contains and if there are meaningful ways for you to discover new content that appeals to you. And I would argue that many, many people (though probably not most Roon users) have their preferences effectively ossified in their 30s and end up listening to the music of their youth for the rest of their lives. And some of us who are using a streaming service for musical discovery are often doing so just so that we can identify music that we want to purchase. So paying a bunch of money for that privilege doesn’t really make sense for that scenario.

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I mentioned this in the stream about Tidal, and am interested to see this confirmed here: many of us still purchase a lot of their music!

I would rather see a well integrated purchasing catalog in Roon than a purely streaming service. See my post here: Is Tidal in trouble?

I think this would offer many benefits (both for Roon and its customers).

Beautifully put @John_McBride.

I do subscribe to Tidal HiFi, before I was using Roon I subscribed to iTunes but I have been evaluating whether I want to continue with Todal HiFi, I only use it to find new music and then I purchase a download.