Fix the "lyrics" function

(Ralph Pantuso) #1

Okay so when Roon’s lyrics function works it is wonderful but…

  1. why are lyrics found for some versions of a song in one’s music library but not for others - with the same artist?

  2. The lyrics appear to tied to the metadata for a recording and NOT to the song itself - this is WRONG!!!

  3. If the lyrics to a song are found for one version of the song why, oh why can’t these lyrics be linked to all the other versions of that song in one’s music library, whether or not the recording is “identified” or whether or not the “identified” metadata contains lyrics?

In short Roon is a slave to the metadata rather than a master of the metadata.

(JohnV) #2

Be careful with your terminology. Dynamic lyrics (a.k.a. karaoke) cannot and should not be linked to every version because of varying arrangements and tempos.

Static lyrics could be linked automatically IMO, but some people object to “automatically”
linking because, e.g., the lyrics may be in different languages, stanzas may be changed or omitted, and so forth.

Finally, I feel sure copyright laws inform their practice to some degree, but I don’t know the nature of any limitations or requirements.

Roon IS a slave to the metadata. TMK, they generate no metadata on their own. So if a lyric is embedded in an album’s tags, e.g., it does not automagically propagate to all other recordings of that song.

Roon has gathered user comments about a feature involving the display of user embedded lyrics (tags). As always, no notion of implementation details were given.

PS: Danny disavowed the idea that dynamic lyrics could be converted into static lyrics and vice versa.

(Reader of the Internets) #3

Didn’t we have this conversation a few months back?

Ralph, I think there’s a fundamental point-of-view issue here – lyrics are for a performance (track), not for a song. That’s the reason for your (1), (2), and (3).

As a jazz fan, I’m sure you’re well aware that performers often twist / modify / ad-lib / scat the words of a song. Heck, composers even change the lyrics over time. Sure, most of the Great American Songbook has standard lyrics, but they’re often not sung that way. Folk music is even worse. Pop songs, OK, I could see it, they’re pretty standardized, and often there’s only one track you’re ever going to hear – I’m thinking of Shirley Bassey’s “Goldfinger”, for instance. Even there, she must have made dozens of different recordings of it – are they all the same?

I could see linking to different copies of the same track, but there you can tell it’s the same track by fingerprinting the audio.

(Ralph Pantuso) #4

Static lyrics would be fine.

I made no mention of lyrics embedded in the file tags - don’t use that function since I like to use very minimal file tags since each and every program uses file tags differently, which is a topic for a different discussion.

My point about Roon being a slave to metadata is that Roon Labs makes a big deal about how it gathers metadata and builds it’s own unique metadata based on the data from different sources, including one’s own edits. So find the lyrics in one set of metadata for a given song and add those lyrics to metadata for all versions of the song with the same performer.

Yes we may have had this discussion a few months back since is one of my pet peeves and does not seem to be taken seriously by the Roon development team (whose salaries my annual membership fee helps to pay - yes we are all paying customers and the customer is always right :smile:)

To your points:

From what I can tell based on my own very large music collection is that:

  1. Roon will only show lyrics for songs on “identified” recordings and then only if the lyrics are available in the metadata.

  2. I have many, many collections and anthologies, such “The 60s Biggest Hits” or “60’s Mega Hits”, etc. These collections have many overlapping songs on them. Some of these collections are “identified” by Roon while others are “unidentified”. Some of the identified collections have lyrics, either static or dynamic, while other identified collections, with some of the exact same songs, have no lyrics. And of course none of the unidentified collections, with some of the exact same songs, have any lyrics. This is totally unacceptable.

As I stated earlier it’s well past the time for Roon to become a master of the metadata rather than a slave.

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