General discussion: What is killing boot SSDs?

Hi wizardofoz, I like the idea of having a cloned M.2 NVMe for Nucleus.

Maybe good to have one even as Backup.

May I ask if there is a size limit that will be supported by Nucleus Plus?

I am thinking of buying me a Samsung 980 Pro M.2 and clone the Original Kingstons.

The Original Kingstons has 125 GB. This small size is not available for Samsung 980 Pro M.2.

The 500 GB version is only 5 EUR more expensive than the 250 GB…

So I tend to go for the 500 GB…

M.2 was not introduced until 2012. This “Mfg Date” you’ve identified can not mean what you assumed. That 64GB M.2 SATA SSD was probably made in 2017 or 2018.

That “date”, is more likely an internal date reference like “# of days since x”, or just a build batch reference.

There are ways to check on the build date via the Manufacturer via the SN of the part. Most of them have a Warranty Checker which usually includes build date as a response. For example, Transcend’s Warranty Checker is:

Whatever the date was, is or might be there was and is perhaps still a rather high number of SSD failures on Nucleus units, that was what prompted the point of this discussion.


Answer to the original post - poor heat mitigation and cheap, below par M.2s

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Isn’t the Nucleus supposed to have specific heat management thats not in normal RoonOS makes a mockery of that if this is the case. Also if they are bundling cheap ssd in what is a premium product I would be well ■■■■■■.

Just my opinion based on 4+ years of witnessing Nucleus problems on this forum. OTOH, the number of problems we see on this forum are probably a small percentage of Nucleus devices in the wild. OTTH, I ‘ve had plenty of Nucs over the years that I have never bothered to turn off, the original intent of NUCs was to be used in kiosks, and I’'ve never lost an M.2.


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And another one bites the dust

I guess that you think it’s high because almost every failure will have to come here to talk about it, as we do support on this site.

I would think very high would be like a few % or something, and given that we’ve sold many 10s of thousands of Nucleus, the rate is quite small. We may be over 100k by now, I’d have to look.

We have this saying, “12-year-olds talking about sex”… that’s what going on above. People talking theoretically with no actual knowledge and interpreting the data they do have as conclusive and worthy of analysis.

Let’s say we had a 1% failure rate, which would be far lower than Transcend or Samsung or Western Digital actually have. This means that we’d have about 1000 complaints here. Do you think you’ve seen 1000 complaints that resulted in a dead SSD, as opposed to a dead PSU, motherboard, RAM, etc… or even user error? The first-ever return of the Nucleus was because the user thought it was a dead power supply. It turned out he just wasn’t pushing the power button. The quick start guide was modified in the next batch to refer to the power button explicitly! In Rev B, we gave up on the super cool power button situation in Rev A, and went with a more traditional power button. Far uglier, but far more obvious.



In my defense, I did offer this -

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I was not the thread starter but only you guys know the extent of the issue…I guess if you have so many thousands of Nucleus out there then maybe it’s not such a big thing but for those browsing the issues being reported it does certainly seem to happen frequently.

Most manufacturers standardise on a 4 digit manufacturing date consisting of the year (1st & 2nd digits) followed by the week number (3rd & 4th digits). For example, 1806 would indicate a manufacturing date in February of 2018 (6th week of the year).

1974 was a particularly confusing year for some users of 7400 series TTL chips…

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Typically a clone has to be at least the same size or larger. Cloning the nucleus/rock images is a bit of a pita to be brutally honest and not for the non geeks imho.

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Completely agree.

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Yep. Went to a Samsung 980 Pro and it wasn’t fun. I’m an experienced drive cloner who used to do it in a forensic capacity. I.e. “not a beginner”.

Juice was worth the squeeze for the peace of mind alone, for me. Interface got a little snappier but overall it’s just a feel good move.

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I think Roon throttle the CPU in the nucleus to keep the heat down so they can use passive cooling.

What surprises me is that Innuos can offer a similar device for nearly half the price of the Nucleus (£799 for Innuos vs £1700 for the basic Nucleus) that has this as standard in the base Innuos model:

Industrial-Grade SSD module specifically for the Operating System with power-loss protection, Low Density Parity Check ECC engine and Global Wear-Levelling technologies

Remember Roon getting fairly snarky and pretty much slamming the door on enabling smart or adding drive diagnostics/errors to the rock web interface.

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Innuos is not recognized by Roon for being able to effectively run Core. Minimum spec for a Core machine is an i3. Innuos uses a Celeron.

This is just a bunch of gobble-de-gook nonsense. It’s word salad that has nothing to do with any experience of reliability or improved SQ. It’s just marketing speak.


Me too in my other life. Glad I’m out of that world now for many years. The experience still comes in handy tho. Still have the old encase PATA drive hardware somewhere :face_with_hand_over_mouth:

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I’m not talking about that, the comment was that Innuos can offer a sturdier SSD in a device at half the price of a Nucleus

Really, please explain what elements of it are word salad?

Industrial grade SSD - this is a common phrase, many mfctrs make tougher SSDs designed to run in tougher/hotter environments like NAS chassis, storage arrays or UCS blades etc.

LDPC- once again a very common term and something that is known to provide very good error correction and extremely good performance

Wear levelling - another common term for something that is proven to extend the life of SSD storage.

Perhaps you shouldn’t just bad mouth things you don’t understand?

You noted the Innuos was cheaper than the Nucleus and, in part, it is because of the CPU.

The marketing department thru in everything they possible could, including things that aren’t particularly relevant in this application.

It doesn’t require any deep understanding to use google to look up buzz words. It worked for you, didn’t it?

BTW - Should one run into trouble with the Innuos, the first thing support, and others on the forum, are going to offer is that the device is below spec.