Grouping Together Box Sets?

Could I ask why this is not happening automatically? For example in the attached.

https://s23.postimg.org/5qrtlf9nf/box_set.png

That’s always an issue with your tags. There’s a knowledge-base article about it, I think.

@Ludwig could you be a bit more specific what you mean by tags? Tags I define in the metadata when ripping a cd, tags I should assign in Roon, or something else? I experience this a lot too, especially with classical music. I’m trying to find the article you refer to, if you know where to find it a link would be appreciated… :slight_smile:

Box sets are complicated. CDs have no metadata stored on them; metadata is retrieved from online databases, usually when the CD is ripped. Metadata retrieved at import is often wrong or poorly formatted. this is especially true for big classical sets. Often, these albums were previously released individually, although sometimes tracks are added. Or, in order to squeeze more on fewer discs, the box-set version may have discs that include parts of 2 previously released albums. Some of them, often, are obscure, and may not be in the databases at all. Ripping programs typically look up data in the online databases one disc at a time–not for the whole set. The online databases are more likely to know the original-release version than the box-set version. All this happens pre-Roon, with whatever program you’re using to rip the CDs. If that process gets the metadata wrong, there’s not much Roon can do.

Last winter I ripped more than 1200 CDs. I quickly learned that a metadata editor is essential. I set up a workflow in which I rip CDs (and imported data) in dBPoweramp, open in MP3Tag, check over (and likely edit) the metadata in MP3Tag, save, and THEN add to the Roon folder. There’s a ton of information on adjusting filenames and other metadata to make sure Roon gets it right.

There is a learning curve.

Jim

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This thread (involving my struggles with one boxed set) is relevant I think.

Thanks @Jim_Austin, your detailed explanation doesn’t solve my issues but is certainly insightful! Unfortunately, my problems are not limited to classical music: lots of pop and folk box sets (e.g. Sandy Denny’s 19CD “Complete Recordings”) are neatly organised in folders per CD, including log files, but Roon keeps making a complete mess of it.

Must be something I do wrong in the ripping process, as you suggest, so hopefully I’m about to experience that learning curve (as you may have guessed by now, I’m more of a music lover than a computer/technology lover​:wink:) That’s why I’m looking forward to 1.3 – a little help from Roon would be much appreciated!:smile:

Classical sets tend to be especially a problem, but it’s not the genre that’s the issue. It’s also not a question of you doing something wrong; the problem is the stochastic process by which metadata is assigned to CDs you rip, which is imperfect.

The Sandy Denny box set is exactly the kind of set that causes problem. This is all previously released material, but it’s repackaged in a completely new way. The discs in the set don’t correspond to particular albums. Disc 1 contains 3 albums, one of which she wasn’t even named on originally. I don’t own the set so I can’t see the metadata, but chances are it’s a mess.

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Thanks again for your clear explanation, Jim.

IT wouldd be nice if Roon let us define what we call an album ourselves. Previous to Roon I used MP3Toys. With this player I can define that everything in one directory is called an album. Works very good for compilations, mix tapes, demo’s, preview releases etc.

Roon does that too. You can either edit the tags of your files to reflect a custom album name consistently in the directory, or group the tracks together in the album browser.

Did you find this? Took me two seconds of searching:

https://kb.roonlabs.com/FAQ:_How_can_I_ensure_multi_disc_sets_and_box_sets_are_identified_properly%3F

Please follow that advice first.

By Tags I mean the file tags in your music files, which are often automatically added by the ripping programme. For a box set these need to either be blank, or consistent: i.e. same ALBUM/ALBUM ARTIST consistently, and correct or blank disc numbers (blank works if you use the CD1-CD2 folder scheme elaborated in the above KB article).

Let us know how you get on.

Hi @Ludwig , indeed I found this, a while ago. Unfortunately it didn’t help me, as this is exactly how I already organise all my music folders, also the Sandy Denny box (see screenshot below). However, I think @Jim_Austin’s nails it: the discs are a mess – disc 1 contains 3 albums, etcetera.

What I haven’t been able to find out yet, is how I can find these three (or in some other cases even more) artists and get them together in one “screen”, so I can merge them into one album. As you can see in my Roon screenshot, unfortunately the box set still is an incomplete mess. Any further help would be much appreciated!

Edit: P.S. I would prefer not to name all artists consistent in the ripping programme, because they’re not, and I’d like to be able to identify Fairport Convention, Fotheringay, etcetera besides Sandy Denny solo. I see the advantages of consistent tagging, but I think this possibly creates new problems in finding/identifying artists and/or tracks. But, as stated earlier, I’m no tech wiz, and there are quite a few of them here, so I’m always open to diverging arguments! :wink:

I’m willing to bet that this is a combination of two things in the tags. ALBUMARTIST and Disc numbering.

Give this a shot…

Since you’re on a Mac grab a copy of Metadatics from the App store. It’s cheap and extremely useful for something like this.

  1. Drop the entire set into Metadatics (all 19 discs – just grab the folder in the finder and drop it into Metadatics).
  2. Set the columns to show full file path as well as disc number and number of discs
  3. Sort the entire screen on the path (so everything is in disc order)
  4. Select everything and set DISCTOTAL to 19
  5. From the Function menu select “Number Sequence”
    Action=Set Number Sequence
    Tag=DISCNUMBER
    Sequence Starts at=1
    Increments by 1
    Padding digits 2
    Increment when folder changes
    Reset sequence never
    Apply to all files
    Select preview and make sure that it’s going to number the discs correctly (it should if everything is sorted correctly).
    Click OK

Now you have all of the DISCNUMBER tags corresponding to the actual disc number in the set along with a proper total number of discs.

  1. Finally check and make sure that ALBUMARTIST is the same for all of the tracks. I would chose whatever is used in the file tags for the tracks that are properly identified in Roon.

  2. Once that’s done save and exit metadatics.

Rescan the files in Roon (from storage settings) and see what happens. If you’re lucky then it will just fix itself. If not you need to do a focus in the album view to find and select all of the stragglers along with the properly ID’d box. Select Fix Track Grouping from the edit menu and make sure that everything looks correct (fix anything that doesn’t). Save the track grouping and Roon should have everything in the box at that point.

I’ve gone through this with countless box sets and getting the disc numbers and totals to correspond with the box in the Rovi database has been a solid fix.

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Unfortunately, according to your screenshot, that’s how not to organize your folders. You might want to check Ludwig’s link again.

I would leave the box set folder name the same (left screenshot) and edit all 19 discs (middle screenshot) as just CD01, CD02, etc. The file names in each disc in the screenshot on the right can be left as is.

I checked Roon and metadata is there for that boxed set, so once you’ve edited the folder names, it should give you better results.

Cheers, Greg

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Thanks for your help, @AMP and @Greg. I followed your suggestions, Greg, but it did not help. I renamed the discs, restarted Roon, re-scanned, re-identified etcetera. I know the box set metadata is in Roon, but I still get the same incomplete results. I think the problem is as @Jim_Austin suggested above. I’ll try the solution @AMP suggests, hope this helps and will let you know.

Hey koen,

Sorry that didn’t work. It looks as though the track name is also probably also giving Roon grief.

In the shot above, D12 T02. Sandy Denny, Milk and Honey.flac probably should just be 02 Milk and Honey.flac.

Since this is getting to be too much manual work, I agree you should give @AMP 's method a try.

Cheers, Greg

Hey guys, well… I followed @AMP’s advice and it worked! I wasn’t lucky, it didn’t fix itself. I had to merge, but then still, Roon made quite a mess of it. Although the disc and track numbers were correct in the metadata of this 19 disc box set, Roon made a 37 box set of it and messed up the order.

First I had to manually fix and assign tracks to the right discs (and even assign the right track numbers to the tracks, although in the right column, Roon showed the correct numbers). And then, when re-identifying, Roon still messed up almost ten tracks, which I had to manually re-assign. So, still a lot of work for one box set.

Now, finally, I have the entire box set as it should be, but now it’s even more a complete mystery to me why Roon did what it did. To me, there’s no logic at all (I’m sure there will be, but it’s completely beyond me). Anyway, thanks a lot @AMP, I’ll use this app with my other problematic box sets! :blush:

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P.S. Please don’t get me wrong: I love Roon. I just purchased a lifetime membership, after a one month trial. IMHO, it’s incomparably better than Audirvana Plus, which, despite an i7 Quad Core, I never managed to get running smoothly.

I have used iTunes to record my CDs as 44.1/16 AIFF files, and have purchased a fair amount of hi-res AIFF files from HD Tracks as well, all managed by iTunes.

I used to just pop the CD into the drive and let iTunes do its thing, but found it often times didn’t grab the correct metadata, album art, etc. and would mark many albums as “compilations”, when they were really not. To “fix” that, I went thru my entire iTunes library, called up each album, did a “Get Info” and corrected the “Artist”, “Album Artist”, the album art and unchecked the “Compilation” box. Since then, every time I record a new CD, I make sure all these settings are correct.

I find a lot of box sets seem to be collections of formerly individual CDs, so they don’t load into iTunes as if they are part of a set. In that case I’ll make sure the CDs are identified in iTunes with a similar name, i.e. “Beethoven Symphonies [Disk 1]”, “Beethoven Symphonies [Disk 2]”, etc. Once I’ve done all those fixes, iTunes, Roon and my Autonomic music server seem to be able to properly organize these as a set.

One thing that could help. When you remove albums from Roon, go to settings under library maintenance and clean up database. This way Roon forgets all the crazies it did with the previous imports so when you re-add the albums it does not use the wrong data stored in it’s database.

Please note, I’m no expert in Roon, been using it only 2 weeks but I don’t have a problem with most identification and discs groupings and I have about 3000 albums. It’s been mostly smooth because of my OCD. I have meticulously maintained my library and followed proper naming scheme over the years.