Hoped for a better experience with Roon

Roon Software
#1

Hi Roon

I am one of your customers who purchased your software to enhance my listening of my music collection but for me it has been an ongoing challenge dealing with issue after issue which ate into my very valuable listening time.
Many of the problems faced by other users on the forum have happened to me at different times over the last few months including the software suddenly not recognizing and loading my music folders, white screens, music skipping, missing albums, Tidal integration issues, genre issues, right picture wrong bio etc etc. I stopped using the software last month and went back to using JRiver Media and decided to wait for the big software update in the hope it would fix the different problems and then reassess if I would stick it out.

I installed the update no problems and for two days proceeded to using it again minus the Tidal which I decided wasnā€™t worth the extra problems. It wasnā€™t perfect but the problems were small again in the genre area mainly. Then on Saturday started it up for use at a dinner party and up comes the message -
"There was an issue loading your database" along with a sad computer face and bang it shuts down at least before it would always load the software but not now. I would like to emphasize the software was working for 2 days and then died suddenly out of the blue .

This brings me to my biggest problem with your software and that is summed up in one word ā€œTrustā€ . If I spend hours and hours making playlists and honing the database to fit my music requirements the last thing I want I want to do is to have to start again. If the problems were seen in my other music programs or I had under powered or wrong equipment I could understand it, but in my view there are many problems with the Roon software at this time .

I know there are many who like to be beta testers and dealing with the problems with new software but in this case I just want to listen to my music and I donā€™t want buy new equipment or tablets to suit the software. If Sonos, Spotify or Jriver Windows, Mac, Android etc can play nice and be reliable then I expect the same from a program I pay $100.00 for . ( In Australia thatā€™s near $200.00 bugger).

Lastly I just wanted to say I know you have customers that sing your praises and have never had a problem and I hope Roon will get to the point where it will offer a great experience to all your users but on behalf of the quite ones out there that donā€™t normally complain (like myself) I hoped for a better experience.

Kind Regards
Mac

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#2

Hey @Mac,

Thanks for letting us know about these problems. Iā€™d like to discuss this further and see what we can do to make this right, in addition to taking a look at your database and getting you up and running again. Really sorry to hear you ran into an issue like that during during a party :frowning:

Iā€™ll be in touch very soon, and weā€™ll do everything we can to straighten this out. And again, our apologies for the trouble @Mac.

Talk to you soon!

#3

Mac,

Very well put. Iā€™ve had a similar experience, and now, I canā€™t recommend Roon to anyone until such time as things are much more stable. I was sure hoping that more time went into function as opposed to form on this current build, but Iā€™m not the one framing their business model. Was not around during the initial release, so maybe this is how they rollā€“using the paying customers as advanced beta testers. It would be one thing if they offered this build out there unoficially on this forum and let folks see how it goes. But putting that update notification box in front of you every time you launch, one figures all should be well and good. And though one poster asked, how to go back to the previous, and for me tooā€“relatively more stable buildā€“have not heard back how. Still a fabulous concept, and I pumped it up high for about ten days after I signed up, but then advised folks to wait for this build. Now Iā€™ll tell them to wait again as itā€™s my reputation too thatā€™s on the line if I recommend something costing them $120 - $480, but canā€™t be relied upon for a dinner party.

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#4

bebop57,

I agreeā€¦that update notification box after launch is a real pain in the butt-slows everything down for a long time, but letā€™s have a little patienceā€¦after all the sound quality is better than anything I have heard.

#5

Unfortunately I am having the same experience, specially with the metadata. I have spent more than 2 years taging my lybrary and ROON decided it had a better structure than mine.

In the rush I order a Meridian MS200 and put aside my trusty Sonos ZP90. At the moment I thing a more simple GUI like the Linn, Sonos or Soolos will be more eficient. I donĀ“t need all the gizmos of ROON. The ROON platform/GUI is to much orientated for the web search and less for a strait music management.

To use ROON I was about to spend on a Surface 3 and a NUC , but I will be better with the coming Auralic Mini Aries.

Regards

Vasco Vaz

#6

Just to balance this out, Iā€™ve generally had a great experience with Roon. Yes, thereā€™s the occasional glitch, but that is generally quickly addressed by the guys at Roon. Iā€™m using a headless Mac mini for the core with the music on its internal drive as well as 2 external HDs tied directly to it. That feeds my DAC directly via USB. Iā€™m not sure if this is a simple setup and that is why it is fuss free.

The point about making the new version upgrade optional is good though, if possible. I used to have nightmares with Amarra upgrades and ended up waiting until the release stabilized 9usually after a few patches).

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#7

I have problems with Roon, like many here.
I still consider Roon the best purchase in computer audio.
Huge potential and a bargain. Its just a wild ride with a huge fun factor.

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#8

Now my experience with Roon through both major releases has been on the whole fairly positive. Room still is leagues ahead of anything out there for listening to digital music playback.

I havenā€™t experienced all the start up issues, or database problems. But there again, I tend to leave the Roon service running 24*7, I only restart the application, when fiddling around with audio optimisation, when the whole server requires a reboot. I am running a MacMini, boot camped and running Win7 64 bit, with very few issues to complain about, other than my own doing when using less than perfect optimised hardware changesā€¦hardly fault of Roon I would say

#9

Is there any common thread among folks having these issues?.. e.g. OS, h/w, NAS, library size, etc.?

Iā€™m running Roon a headless Mac Mini (OSX), external FW drive, USB DAC and a ~500 album library (Iā€™m less than half-way through re-ripping my entire CD collection to FLAC so the library is still growing).

Iā€™ve had some occasional hiccups, but nothing serious and any issues are usually related to an album missing in Tidal or a problem streaming from Tidal.

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#10

Thatā€™s almost a carbon copy of my setup and of the various niggles Iā€™ve encountered.

#11

I must say I share the same sentiment with @Mac, especially regarding ā€œtrustā€.
I love Roon so much that I upgraded from an annual subscription to lifetime. On that very same day I lost my database (for the 2nd time at that point) and it took me days to get it back. Ever since then Iā€™ve had this problem non-stop, including now in 1.1 and in an even worse way than before.

While other users post here about the smallest things to make Roon perfect, I still worry about having Roon work at all. At some point I stopped making any edits because I was afraid they will just go to waste next time my library disappears, so I started making backups every few days and only doing minimal editing in between. Thereā€™s nothing I hate more than making the same work twiceā€¦ I was hoping it will go away with 1.1 that was supposed to be more protected against DB corruptions but obviously thatā€™s not the case.

I think it will take me a long time to trust Roon again, and I will keep making frequent backups in the meantime, always keeping 2 backups back in case the last one got corrupted upon shutdown.

Like I said Iā€™m invested in Roon for life, and I really want to see it maturing and becoming the ultimate music experiencing software.

Lior

#12

I havenā€™t had the types of problems you describe, Roonā€™s been fairly stable for me. But I donā€™t mind beta-testing and tinkering a bit. Iā€™d like to get more incremental updates than wait a long period of time for a fix or new features.

Iā€™ve also taken a different approach to metadata. I donā€™t edit it in Roon. I refine it elsewhere so Roon can better figure out what it is and apply itā€™s matching data to it. I take it for granted that I will lose what I edit in Roon if I move to another program or if I stick with Roon and the database gets damaged.

I do agree about ā€œtrustā€ though. Soon asks for a lot of it. Three months since launch and the things outlined at the beginning arenā€™t here yet. Still waiting on iPad App (I say iPad, because it will still be while we get even a basic controller for the iPhone, and to be fair, this was not promised at launchā€“and yes I know iPad is now out of their hands and submitted, but we still wait) and RoonSpeakers. While a good product, Roon is still incomplete.

Roon is still the best home listening experience Iā€™ve had. When itā€™s a complete product and an iPhone controller happens itā€™ll be ideal and most likely worthy of a lifetime subscription.

#13

Weird, my experience has been utterly bug free!

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#14

Hey everyone,

I really appreciate all the feedback in this thread, and weā€™re going to make sure we do everything we can to address @Macā€™s database issue.

We discovered two issues (one on Windows, one on OSX) in Roon 1.0 that in certain circumstances could lead to database issues. Neither affected more than a handful of users, but obviously, we take this very, very seriously ā€“ seriously enough that we spent significant time on a re-architecture of the Roon database designed to eliminate this class of corruption, even in the event of system issues like power cuts. This was a major change, and our internal testers spent weeks running their databases through the migration process over and over to ensure it was stable.

We suspected some small number of 1.0 databases might contain latent traces of this issue. When you upgrade to 1.1 the database is migrated to the new and improved structure. Since every part of the database gets touched during the migration, some of these latent 1.0 issues are now surfacing, despite this no longer occurring in 1.1.

So, this migration offered us the chance to detect the remaining traces of this issue, and put this behind us. Starting in 1.1, the app no longer tries to run when database issues are detected, and instead tells you to contact us ā€“ this way youā€™re not able to do any further damage. Of course, our hope is that this notification does not happen during a dinner party :expressionless: We have also built some tools in house that allow us to fix affected databases when users contact us.

Weā€™ve seen a handful of latent 1.0 issues detected, but as of today, weā€™re feeling confident these are the lingering effects of an issue that is now resolved. That doesnā€™t make it any more fun when something goes wrong, but I can tell you that weā€™ve personally worked with everyone affected and done whatever we can to ensure theyā€™re back up and running.

Just because weā€™ve fixed this issue, it doesnā€™t mean that database problems are now impossible. Running Roon on a failing hard drive can still cause issues, which is why we are encouraging everyone to backup periodically. And of course, even if your issue is likely caused by failing hardware, weā€™re happy to help.

Roon is a new product, not even 6 months old. Weā€™re really happy with both the 1.0 and 1.1 releases, and weā€™re still tracking down issues every day. We tested 1.1 for weeks, and while we donā€™t consider our releases to be beta at all, we are considering a public beta program for the future, that will allow those of you wanting the latest and greatest to distinguish themselves from those of you that value stability more.

This is our first major release since launch, and it was ambitious to say the least. Weā€™re happy with how itā€™s gone, and we are dealing with the inevitable and scattered issues that arise when you release 2 months of development at once. If it worked great for you, thanks for letting us know. If youā€™re having any issues at all, let us know. And if youā€™ve let us know, and havenā€™t heard back from us, please drop me a PM so I can check status.

Again, we really appreciate everyoneā€™s support ā€“ if you have any additional feedback or concerns, or if youā€™re not happy with Roon in any way, please send me a private message.

Thanks again everyone, especially if you actually read to the end of this post :smile:

6 Likes
#15

Hi Mike,

Thanks for your replyā€™s in relation to my experience with Roon. I would like to confirm to everyone that you have contacted me directly to try and help sort out my various issues and I feel that the general consensus of the forum is that you guys are there to help and are trying your best to handle the issues that arise in the first months of new software. I am very happy the other users of Roon who have had on the whole good experiences have not taken me to task over what was genuine feedback. I have invested a vast amount of money and time in audio and computer equipment for my my big vice in life including my personal listening room (any software and equipment has to be perfect for me to make it in there) and a professional level recording studio for my family so I donā€™t feel a mac mini, a certain DAC and a NAS ( I have many variations of these and I early adopt when I see good reviews at sites like "Computer Audiophile) will make a difference. To be fair you guys are still at version 1 vs version 20+ for JRiver Media but I am going to leave Roon for awhile and as I still have 10 months to go on my subscription I will check back later in hope that for me Roon will be a good fit for my listening enjoyment. Trust me I will balance the ledger with a glowing report if it does.

Again thanks for the offer of help and all the best . I will keep an ear on the forum and good luck to the users who are in it for " The Wild Ride" have fun
Kind Regards
Mac

#16

Iā€™m coming to this post late, but I share the frustrations highlighted by Mac. I guess the reason Iā€™m late to this post is that Iā€™ve put Roon to the side for now and gone back to using JRiver, (and separately I use Tidal). Simply put, JRiver works, whereas Iā€™m never quite sure with Roon. To offer criticism of Roon is to ā€˜rain on someone elseā€™s paradeā€™, since so many people enthuse about it. Iā€™m delighted for those that find success with Roon. For me though, Roon works like a beta version of software.

Iā€™m sure it will be good, even excellent, one day, but like Mac, I simply want to turn on and play. I canā€™t do that with Roon, and I get disheartened having to spend 5 - 10 minutes fiddling with Roon trying to get it to work, and thatā€™s every time I want to listen to some music. Iā€™ve paid for a year and will check it out every so often, but for now JRiver serves my needs, and without the numerous inconveniences Iā€™ve encountered with Roon.

#17

Hey Bob,

Sorry to hear youā€™ve had some issues with Roon ā€“ I donā€™t think weā€™ve heard about your issues before, but Iā€™d love to look into whatever it is youā€™ve encountered.

It would be great if you could start a thread in our Support section and let us know, or just PM me directly. Weā€™re really proud of how much Roon has improved since our launch 4 months ago, and the more feedback we get, the better it gets.

If youā€™re spending 10 minutes getting Roon to work, something is clearly wrong, and we want to hear about it! Looking forward to getting whateverā€™s going on resolved for you soon @bitsnbob ā€“ thanks for the feedback!

#18

Hi Mike,

Many thanks for the very prompt reply. For sure, the Team at Roon do offer great support.

The difficulty Iā€™ve been having comes down to having to set up audio far too often. It seemed like most times I went into Roon I had to re-enter the system output and speakers to play back music. For some reason, it couldnā€™t remember what I was doing before, and when I came back into Roon these settings would be blank. That would be for both server and remote. Iā€™m using the system as I type this and itā€™s working fine. Maybe it just needed me to go public in order for a fix to appear, or maybe along the way an update has been issued.

I did post a topic on the support forum titled ā€˜Roon 101 for Dummiesā€™, and that was addressing the same issue. I guess it comes down to me not having grasped the Roon terminology, e.g. what is the difference between ā€˜system outputā€™ and ā€˜speakersā€™? (And why, when I define a name for each of these things, canā€™t Roon remember that label). However I donā€™t think my lack of a grasp of terminology explains why the system forgot my setup requiring me to go back and set it up each time.

As further feedback, I am one of those who has spent countless hours meticulously tagging my music collection, including scanning all cover art and assigning genres as I understand them. Roon is currently telling me that Bruce Springsteen belongs to the Folk genre; thatā€™s not how Iā€™ve tagged ā€˜The Bossā€™. I know that you are working to better recognise users own tags, but Roon insisting on itā€™s view of the world, added to my having to set up audio far too often was a big switch off for me.

Today, and so far, all has been well. All being well, Iā€™m back on board. However, I do believe that some sort of initial set-up guide (a ā€˜Roon 101ā€™) is required.

Many thanks and regards,

Bob

#19

Hi Bob,

System output is the output device currently selected as default in the Windows audio playback panel. Speakers sounds like an analog out from your sound card or motherboard audio, and would be one of the devices in the playback panel. There may be other devices, digital out, HDMI, headphones etc, depending on your hardware. If you choose system output as your output zone, then Roonā€™s output will change as you change the default system playback device. If you select Speakers as the output zone, then Roonā€™s output will go to Speakers, but you can send system audio to some other device, such as headphones.

I canā€™t help with disappearing zone labels sorry, but Mike is on the case there so that will hopefully be sorted asap.

There is a FAQ under the Support menu of the main site and a FAQ sub-section in the Support section of this forum that can help. A search of forum posts often turns up something helpful. I understand thatā€™s not the same thing as a manual or Roon 101 as suggested. Part of the reason the devs havenā€™t implemented those things is because Roon has been evolving rapidly and manuals or guides would quickly become outdated. The preference has been for in app info attached to the controls, FAQ guides as above and responsive support on this forum.

Generally if youā€™ve got a question the forums are very open to helping; @rugby solved a problem I had when I started using Roon, and I believe in paying that sort of help forward. The accumulated experience of the forum is quite amazing, and it seems mercifully free of flamers and trolls.

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#20

Well, Roon is certainly tagging the Boss that way because of the Pete Seger album. It might be fairer to tag just the album with folk and not the artist. Kind of like tagging Aerosmith as rap because of RunDMCā€™s version of Walk This Way. But, the good news is that you can choose how artists are tagged. You can edit the Artist and remove or add any tag you want. In fact, you can just tell Roon NOT to add any of its matched genres at all with a flick of a switch in the settings.
See Below

In your case you would want to set the switches like I circled in RED. Say NO to ā€œShow Roon Genresā€ which should turn off Roonā€™s own genre matching and thus goodbye Bruce as folk, and then YES to ā€œShow Genres From File Tagsā€ which should display the file tags that you set up.

It sounds like you use a mac, even though you havenā€™t stated your exact Roon Core setup or your Roon Remote setup. And thanks to @andybob for his nice words, but, I never use macs so I will not profess expertise, but other mac experts will see this post and might chime in to help. I have been slowly trying to work up a Roon Manual, that not only gives a what each option does, but a ā€œhow do I set the system to do ā€¦Xā€ walkthrough, best hardware practices, system definitions, etc etc.

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