HQPlayer Embedded Discussion [2021-2022]

@Jose_Vita
@Deano
I briefly checked some bus stops on the net for info about the UltraRendo, and as far as I can understand the performance does not increase from my computer/usb/RME ADI-2, there seems to be almost equal noise levels, in measurements, but the other part is off course hard to check by reading.
Perhaps the correct way is to first buy or build a good linear psu to the DAC, the company I work for sell the Keces products and I think that the P3 would be an excellent choice. After this trial perhaps a galvanic isolation of the usb bus, re-clock and expernal power supply would be a better choice, i.e. the SoTM USB card. Perhaps anyone running like this? not necessarily with the Keces, but a good linear psu?
My current stream is Roon on separate pc (NAS+Tidal+Qobuz) → FTP Cat8 cable to D-Link 230 VAC connected protective ground switch for homogeneous ground of cable network shields and devices signal grounds + QoS improved re-clocking → FTP Cat8 cable from D-Link → HQPe on separate pc → USB → RME ADI-2 DAC fs

Yes, the software is available. Even as full OS stack that you can boot, for RPi4 and x64 PC hardware.

I’m using the UP Gateway as a NAA (running NAA OS), powered from Ferrum Hypsos PSU.

Then there are of course DACs with built-in ethernet input and NAA functionality. Such as the big T+A units and exaSound s88.

1 Like

In the past I used both the ultra rendu and sotm usb card. Both powered by hdplex linear. I found the ultrarendu better in terms of background noise. Also, it allowed my hqp pc to be out of the listening room, and as loud as it wanted to be.

Today I go optical to my dac, so I am free from these usb isolation problems.

Ps: if one of you bus stops was a certain audio science forum, take it with a grain of salt. For them, nothing else matters, and you could plug a usb cable directly from your standard pc port to your rme that performance would be the same, and you would not be able to tell the difference in a double-blind test. I am not saying they are wrong (or right). You just have to choose your philosophy here.

1 Like

I’m using CAT6A U/UTP throughout on purpose to break all the ground connections. Especially because mixture of lifted and grounded devices (two and three pin power cords).

Otherwise the entire house with 50+ ethernet connected devices would be horrible grounding mess.

Ethernet provides you galvanically isolated connections only if you use unshielded cables. It has that galvanic isolation on purpose.

These are one of my favorite patch cables at the moment:


House is wired with normal CAT6 U/UTP.

I also have bunch of CAT6A flat ribbon type patch cables.

4 Likes

@dabassgoesboomboom per your request here’s my i9 12900k w/ DDR5 w/o CUDA running -107 AMD build

1 Like

I instead use only shielded patches, using the shield to while always connected to each and every non-grounded device, often powered from SMPSU’s, hence loads of PCB signal ground ripple, become as good as one as possible by grounding it in the switch with 0 ohm protective ground impedance. So instead of isolate every device as islands, each buzzing from their ripple, I connect them to ground giving them as low and as equal potential as possible. Otherwise, there is always the risk of stray capacitance polluting the signal with the un-grounded noise/rippel. It has done I would say, the complete difference allowing me to hear every tiny change I do in the rig. The concept is proven equally efficient whereever I implement it, everyone is able to recognize the difference, in most cases significant. And, on top of it, it is not even so called hifi-switches, just plain unmanaged enterprice switches from D-link, 230 V AC with protective earth and QoS.

Now this is interesting. Is the Gateway this one; UP gateway, ATOM x5-Z8350.w/4G memory,32G eMMC board.w/ VESA plate ?

And you have an image; software on OS available to just etch and boot this device from? Included in current subscribtion or additional? Would you say from your experience or perhaps even measurement, that this gateway is making my streaming chain even more silent? I mean silent in the signal to noise ratio?

I don’t do that, because it will create way too many problems.

You know something is wrong if changing let’s say HQPlayer computer, or a switch makes difference given the algorithms running are the same.

I don’t use any audiophile networking gear. My switches and wireless access points are from Cisco and Hewlett-Packard Enterprise (aka HPE, nowadays called Aruba). Most of the switches are managed ones. Wireless access points are powered from the central switch using PoE.

I have two central switches where all the rooms and internet firewalls (primary and backup) are connected to. And then room specific switches in each room where all the wired equipment in that room are connected to. Or well, to be more accurate, wall socket specific switches, since at the office I have two wall sockets and each has it’s own switch next to it.

Yes…

Yes…

If you have a license for HQPlayer you are covered for NAAs.

For example my Spring 3 measurements were done using it. Although at that point using medical grade SMPS before the current Ferrum Hypsos. It always depends on the DAC how much it makes difference. Better the DAC’s isolation, less difference it makes.

OTOH, my ADI-2 measurements were done with ADI-2 connected to my Xeon W-2245 workstation running Ubuntu and HQPlayer Desktop.

2 Likes

The final question; since the NAA is not involved in heavy algorithms in same contaxt as the HQPe PC itself; the NAA in your former answer will support transfer of DSD256 DoP from LAN side to USB out?

Wish the distance wasn’t so long. I would gladly demo the network implementation to you. Since you are also a skilled listener, I am 100% certain you would notice and also appreciate the difference with using shielded cabels and carefully implemented common ground (the closest one could get to the utopic star-ground). In fact, it resembles what I appreciate with your software and especially the sharp cut-off, high attenuation filtering. It becomes dead silent and music that “always” been sounding like recorded under fire, suddenly you can (“almost”) count the number of “multi” tracks there is, if you feel what I mean? The very most recent progress left my friend with a jaw drop ending at his knee caps, when I was able to reach the DSD256 sample and DSD7 + 256 fs.
Further I agree that something is wrong when a computer change, or even a part change will alter SQ. Here my status today is that there is no changes after comon grounding. But before, when e.g. bought a new NAS, the SQ changed. The device furthest away, if not streaming is counted in. I personally no longer think digital devices sound different. They participate however in polluting ground in manners depending on technical design. And ground noise is a game changer IMHO
Cheers and see you soon :slight_smile:

@jussi_laako I see that 4.28.3 has been released but when I went to go download I noticed a .1 release in the images directory. Are we always supposed to install the latest dot release of your release version? So always download 4.28.3.1 (or .2+) instead of the base 4.28.3 release?

Yes…

It is not technically feasible to have all the (~50) devices around the house connected such way. And it would be bad already for electrical safety too. There is a very specific reason why for example large office buildings use unshielded patch cables…

Please note that my content storage, servers, NAAs, and central switches are usually all in different rooms… Usually distance from my HQPlayer server to the NAA measured in ethernet cable distance is about 20m.

And HQPlayer Client is running on WiFi, sometimes HQPlayer server is on WiFi too. For example when I’m running it on my development laptop and streaming to the NAA in the equipment rack. Source comes from HRA streaming servers in the cloud, over WiFi to the laptop, is processed there, and sent over WiFi to the NAA, travelling through the central switch in the machine room.

Technically I could be even streaming over VPN to the NAA from other side of the globe…

2 Likes

Only the x64gen image got updated today with .1 release with one change in the build configuration to make it a bit more similar to the x64amd one. You can try both variants if you like.

So new newbie question for the tribe…

I just tried my first update to HQPe Server after getting my system fully working. I wanted to update to 4.28.3 given some of the changes and fixes. I re-imaged my USB stick with the new image, restored my backup config file to the new image, changed the password for the default user. All good. However…

The new HQPe Server is not seeing my NUC-based NAA that remained untouched and connected via USB to my MAY dac. I rebooted the NAA device and still no go. All I see in the networked audio section is …

This now seems harder than it should be for an update. What am I doing wrong here? Thanks.

What is your NAA running? These both are not having the same name?

NAA is running the prior version of HQPe 4.28.2. And I changed the name of the NAA so it is unique from the default. So that shouldn’t be an issue.

Please check that first, because it is one of the potential issues…

Follow up question: If I switch the inputs for the MAY away from USB does the NAA release the MAY in some way internally? Because if so then that might be the issue because I last used the MAY with COAX input from a Bluesound Node. I don’t think I switched it back yet to USB. Is the NAA supposed to pick up the MAY once the USB input is switched to the current input?

I don’t know how May’s USB interface behaves. Spring 1 and 2 had USB interface always available even if device was on standby. Not anymore the case with Spring 3.

I have never switched inputs on my Holo DACs, so I have no idea how it behaves.

In order for HQPlayer to connect a DAC, the DAC needs to be alive.

If you pull the plug (rug) under HQPlayer’s feet when things are up, it may not recover so easily. If you power down the May or switch inputs when HQPlayer is not connected, it should recover once the DAC becomes available again.

Why not route that through HQPlayer too? :wink:

Well I’d to do that but am unclear on how this would work in practice. I need to have an easy to use Apple Music streamer available to my wife so she can just Airplay music using Siri or her phone. We also want a deep catalog for discovery purposes. But I have a large curated Roon library of higher res albums and I setup HQP specifically to stream from that library to the MAY. So I have the Bluesound Node connected to the MAY’s COAX input and the Intel NUC NAA connected via USB, switching inputs on the MAY depending on the situation. I had assumed that the HQP setup would ‘just work’ in this use case, i.e. stream via USB when that input was active. I haven’t yet tested switching the input back to USB and seeing if that solves my NAA losing the MAY after I updated HQPe Server. I will report back. But I sincerely hope that I won’t have to choose between AM and ROON as I really need both setups.

How would I go about routing the Node streaming Airplay through HQP?

@jussi_laako
@dabassgoesboomboom

Hi, where can I find the NAA OS image suitable for e.g. Up Gateway? Been looking like crazy on your various pages. Thanx :slight_smile:

1 Like