Hybrid-DSD in Roon

I started using Roon a few days ago and managed to tailor it to my wish in a few hours, it’s really not difficult to use at all.
Using it has proved a great experience, I’ve been able to re-discover music in the depths of my iTunes library I forgot I had just by the way Roon works.
Add to that Tidal integration and you could say Roon is indeed awesome!

The only problem I can’t seem to solve is I have about 250 tracks less in Roon than in iTunes and yes, I checked all the requirements: no DRM, I only have AAC and ALAC highres od CD rip, etc …
I hope to find some help in how to identify what is missing, going over the tracks in my library one by one is no option of course.

But the feature request:
Since I (and I suppose many others as well) keep their library in iTunes for management purposes and syncing with IOS devices I also have my DSD files in iTunes of course.
They are Hybrid-DSD files created by an app called DSD Master from the developer of BitPerfect.
In short they are a container that hold the DSD version that is used when you play through a DSD capable dac as well as a 176 kHz version that is used when you play through non-DSD capable setup.
Now Roon reads these files fine but plays the 176 kHz version of course.
Is there any chance Roon will recognize these Hybrid-DSD files in the future?
That would make it possible to keep all my music in one location and access it from Roon as well as iTunes.
For now I use a workaround and put my DSD files in a Roon managed folder and the Hybrid-DSD folders in iTunes but that also means that any changes I make to the metadata in iTunes doesn’t come through an also that I get the same album twice in Roon.
Would be great if Roon could read these Hybrid-DSD files but I think that would mean getting in touch with Richard form BitPerfect.

Link to DSD master:

Are the DSD files .dff or .dsf?
They must be .dsf.
You must convert the .dff files to .dsf.
You can also tag .dsf files, .dff not.

I would think probably not. That is a proprietary file format developed and owned by that company (individual?). They specifically state that other players will only play the PCM part of the file - which as you say Roon does.

Part of your issue is that you’ve locked yourself into a proprietary solution. Imho, the better play is to rethink your music in terms of open standards and begin transitioning accordingly.

Well said. If we expected Roon to support all proprietary formats, we’d cost them both time and (often) licensing fees.

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error - deleted

The original files are dsf, the hybrids are m4a containing the dsf.

Hello Rugby,

I asked the developer what could be done since I find the way I use iTunes and Roon in tandem now seems very handy.
The only thing I still do with iTunes is use it as a database application to organize my library. the changes reflect nicely in Roon.

Maybe I need to look at it in a whole different way and organzie with Roon as well?
It seems pretty cumbersome though since I use my own genres like flower power, classicish, … The default genres don’t make much sense for some of the music I have and the way i look at it. I have a lot of rock and have all kinds of different subgenres for that but not necessarily the readily available genres.

How do you organse and edit metadata with Roon?
Any way to edit a bunch of files in one go?

And suppose I import my whole itunes Library into a “Roon Organized” folder.
Would I keep my altered metadata and genres then or would I have to reorganise the whole library?

Any info on the subject is very much appreciated!

I have Roon set up to Watch two folder hierarchies:

  1. iTunes
  2. Other Music not compatible with iTunes (DSD, FLAC)

I still use iTunes to manage my library. I use the “Add To Library” menu item to select artist/album folders from CD rips or downloads. iTunes adds the music to my library by moving it and gives me a pretty good overview on how the metadata fits. iTunes isn’t a bad metadata editor either.

For file formats not compatible with iTunes (mostly DSD) have a separate Music folder hierarchy that I must manually manage.

Do not use Roon Organized folder.

Why not? Seems better than a watched folder to me unless there are problems with it of course.

No. Do not use Roon Organized folder. There’s been problems with it.

Your iTunes library will be read and used by Roon. It won’t be altered by Roon at all. This is one reason why I like Roon so much - it doesn’t muck around with the library I’ve built using iTunes. I also use BitPerfect but the permutations necessary to run DSD Master software led me to use Roon instead. Pure Music does something similar.

Good luck with your setup.

Thanks Tom, will use a watched folder instead.
I set up Roon the same way by the way, except for Flac.
I convert my Flac to Alac with XLD and put it in iTunes as well.

One thing I have been searching for today is splitting mrged albums.
I find a lot of info on merging three versions from the same album so you see only one but I want to do the exact opposite: see three entries for three versions of the same album. Now I can only see one album and I have to go intomthe album and click on veraions. I would prefer to see three albums in my library.

On those, when you display the Other Versions you will see a button to Remove Duplicates. When you select this, the different version will show in the browser. I don’t know how to do this globally for all duplicates. For me, it’s one at a time. But I rarely use it because I select which version I want to be Primary when I select the Other Versions.

Revealed: Settings/General/Show Hidden Albums

Goto Settings->General and enable Show Hidden Albums

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Thanks Tom, the remove duplicates work. Weird way to name it though, sounds like you’re going to delete the duplicate albums.

I had th show hidden albums on from the beginning and turned it off and on again but it didn’t change anything in this case.

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Indeed, this all needs to be done album by album like editing any other metadata in Roon which is why I keep using iTunes for editing metadata and managing my library.
Roon could definitely use a list view with selecting an sorting capabilities to mange a library and edit metadata.

95 times out of a hundred when Roon reveals an error in my metadata. I use iTunes to fix the error and Roon picks it right up. Dual disk CDs rips are an example iTunes doesn’t do well on its own but I can usually get the metadata fixed so it is displayed correctly in iTunes.

On the other hand Roon’s depth of knowledge on recordings is quite extensive and better than iTunes by far. It identifies my albums and if, for example, the artwork isn’t right, I defer to Roon’s choice. When in doubt I use Roon’s data and will go into iTunes to make the change.

I don’t have a large library of classical music so I’m content to let iTunes and Roon sort it out. There are many Roon users who would disagree about Roon’s metadata breadth and depth with classical but I’m not one of them. (I understand that Roon is developing a more powerful system of organizing and matching classical metadata to the tracks so this will improve.)

Perhaps sometime I will move away from iTunes and let Roon do it all. But, like you, my paradigm is being able to view and edit the data in a list view like iTunes.

Roon and Macs work really well together. I follow this forum and see a lot of user issues I never have with my MacMini Core and iMac remote.

Good luck.

In Settings you can elect to use your own genres, or those of Roon, or both…

You can select multiple Albums (in the Album view) or Tracks (in the Track view) and carry out operations (such as metadata editing) on the selected group as a whole.

Having said that, for much metadata work, a dedicated third party editor is my preference. Things may change with the upcoming 1.3 release of Roon.

And finally, as has been pointed out: the first rule of Organized Folders is - don’t use Organized Folders. And the second rule of Organized Folders is - don’t use Organized Folders.

Thank you both for your replies.

Indeed, selecting multiple tracks or albums simplifies it a bit bu like you say another editor is better.
I use iTunes for now for metadata editing. What third party editor are you referring to Geoff and is it availbel for mac or an equivalent maybe?

For classical I’m fine with the way Roon handles things as well, I’m not that knowldegeable when it comes to classical music but I enjoy Baroques, anything with strings and small chamber orchestras a lot.

And finally, I wonder what the mystery with those organized folders is all about. :wink:
Just to be safe I did move my DSD albums into a watched folder though!

I use a OSX (Mac OS) app called Tag Editor that I bought from the app store. I has a list/grid view and allows copy/paste including artwork. Easy to use and has some powerful features.

There might be others that are freeware but for the $ I wasn’t complaining. (I am unable at this moment to check the price at the App Store. Must be busy.)

For my hi-res and DSD purchases I have a separate folder under Music (a sister to iTunes) and I organize it by how I acquired the tracks. I.E. HDTracks, Accoustic Sounds, AIX, 2L, etc. Then under them I organize by artist then album. That way I can keep track of where I acquired the music. This is how Roon really shines by presenting all of my music - regardless of its folder location - organized.