I don’t like 1.8 - it feels like a massive failure

I’m not sure why you’re addressing this to me. You seem to be agreeing with the fact that I don’t think 1.8 is a massive failure.

As for:
“It is also unwise to assume that all the users who don’t post on this forum are all happy and satisfied. There are many people who don’t bother to complain but just pack up and leave.”

It is commonly thought that those with complaints are far more likely to post on forums than those who are happy with a product. There’s nothing wrong with that, but it indicates that the number of complainers isn’t a good gauge of overall satisfaction or dissatisfaction. In the unusual case of Roon, there are also many lifetime subscribers for whom “leave” isn’t a particularly attractive option.

My old statistics professor used to say that in marketing surveys negative answers should be weighted more than positive answers because most people tend to either avoid conflict or doubt that complaints will be given much attention.

I agree with this.


Sure, but that’s under the assumption that you have a representative and statistically meaningful sampling approach… totally agree with what you’re saying in the context of surveys (though there are clever ways to mitigate this risk in survey design). But here we have people self selecting by taking the effort to go on a forum, read, and post. Note I’m not saying that it was perfect or that everyone liked it or that’s individuals experiences weren’t crappy etc. just saying that negative responses here are quite possibly louder for a bunch of reasons than they would be if you were doing a proper survey (sidebar: can you imagine having the job of calling us Roon users and asking us if we’d like to participate in a survey?!)

A marketing survey is vastly different from a decision to post on a social network. A marketing survey, done properly, should represent the views of an accurate cross-section of the users of a product or service. Comments on a social network represent only the views of those who want to post, and often those who attempt to speak loudest or most often (as in, repeating themselves).


Maybe, maybe not. There is no valid reason to assume that the active members of this forum do not make up a representative sample, nor is there a valid reason to assume they do.

The safest course for those who could benefit from the content of this forum would be not to underestimate the importance of the dissatisfaction that is expressed here.

It’s not my business at stake here so I don’t really care what they do or don’t with it.

One thing though: of the three major updates of Roon I’ve experienced, tempers have not run as high as with this one. Something to consider maybe.


I think there are plenty of valid reasons to think that participants in any product or service forum don’t represent what one might consider a “typical” customer. People simply don’t enter forums like these frequently to proclaim they are totally content or happy. Most post to ask questions, discuss their problems or to complain.
I, and apparently others, suspect that 1.8 is a hotter topic than most Roon updates because it involves a design change. These always bring out vocal critics. Of course, there have been issues that deserve to be talked about and rectified. Some have already been fixed, others not.
My issue with those calling 1.8 a “massive failure” is that it clearly is not. It’s not even a failure, let alone massive. But you are correct, dissatisfaction here should not be ignored by Roon. Personally, I don’t think it is.
Like you, I have no stake in this, other than being a Roon lifetime member since its early stages. My lifetime investment has already paid for itself. I happen to like 1.8, but I respect the fact that some people don’t. That, however, does not give them the right to speak for others. There is too much (I am paraphrasing) “everybody thinks it’s a failure,” “everybody knows no graphic designer would ever do this,” everybody hates purple” etc, here.



Balance in all things.

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It’s interesting that some who don’t like 1.8 have taken to this kind of attack. I don’t recall any such “admission” by Roon. This review is on the Apple Store.

strong text


I would say that those who still think that only minority of Roon users complain don’t get a simple fact - there is quite enough of negative feedback on 1.8 here. So me personally and other Roon users that I know don’t need to repost all these bugs - they are all already here. I’m a lifetime subscriber and software developer with 25 years experience and consider 1.8 UI ugly and QA ridiculous. But I cannot add nothing new to posts before. My only suggestion to Roon is to find a good investor and hire a better development team.


I have shovelled muck for 36 years, does the job I have done mean I have less of an opinion?


Very clearly worded. „By Roon‘s admission“ clearly not correct, but otherwise not far off the mark. If you scroll the international App stores, you find piles of 1-star valuations there as well. Many equally clearly worded.

Thats not „attack“ thats people clearly not happy. At all.

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Thats the feedback you get when things are not prematurely released. (Its from an App I was honored being part of in a very intense beta-testing):

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When you post a subjective evaluation of an app, that’s a review. When you deliberately lie about the company that produced the app (or anything else), that’s an attack. Everyone is entitled to his or her opinion; nobody is entitled to spread mistruths.

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How do you know how some people at Roon might think in private conversations? Do you know where that “by own admission” came from? Could be ‘mistruths’, could be ‘misunderstanding’, could be something else.

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Your old statistics professor may have been thinking about old marketing surveys, which were done by people actually talking to other people. In those, he was right: people do tend to avoid being negative to others. But on the Internet, as we’ve all learned, negativity rules!

That’s a real stretch. Sure, the guy named “sad Roon” is privy to private conversations at Roon. So if I post “everybody on the Roon forums secretly admits the app is great” you’ll believe that, too? I happen to like 1.8, and it works flawlessly for me. But I would never do that.


This entire thread is one big opinion, interwoven with insults and vitriol. [Moderated]


Sure, the App store valuations are also full of opinions. Obviously not always the best.

The world is full of opinions. Accepting other opinions is part of the game. Some people can’t or won’t. Thats ok.

Yes, well in the end, opinions are the expression of customer satisfaction or lack thereof.

It’s all well and good to dismiss the “vitriol” for whatever reason. It still shows dissatisfaction.

Moreover, this time many complaints come from users who used to be in the fanboy camp. Food for thought I should think.

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“By Roon’s admission, was not properly designed” is not an opinion. It is a supposed statement of “fact”, which as far as I know is an outright lie. But feel free to show me “Roon’s admission” that the update it just released is not properly designed. Of course, you can’t. It just happens to fit the narrative in this thread, so it’s now being labelled an “opinion.”
I have no problem whatsoever with anyone having an opinion that doesn’t contain lies disguised as facts, as long as that person has no problem with the expectation that his or her opinion won’t be shared by the entire world.

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