Jez,
You’ve given some good examples, particularly for the classical world. I’m guessing that I may not hit those kinds of frustrations in that I listen to music from my file library almost all the time, so the sets of albums I’m usually querying are relatively small (usually around 1200) compared to the millions(?) available via streaming.
I don’t know the op’s library size, but it sounds like they are more interested in library usage rather than streaming based on their original question. If so, querying enormous online libraries might not be the focus. No way to know for sure from the original post.
Like some of the others above - I also have my music ‘meticulously’ tagged. I don’t use Roon for it’s tagging I use my own tags. I went through the arduous process of 'fixing all my old tags a number of years ago now - pre the time when I used to stream and just used digital music for ‘on the go’. Times have changed for me.
I would say that many here don’t exactly love Roon, but use at because it does what they want best for their needs. Classical specialists seem to have the most trouble using Roon because quite simply Roon isn’t designed for the complexities of classical music.
Conversely, those that haven’t tagged thier music and mostly use streaming services seem to speak most highly about Roon. They appear to get a lot for the little they have put into their digital collections (if any at all).
I like Roon & I don’t like Roon - too much to talk about in regard to your question.
I would suggest, as ‘we’ are all Roon users for one reason or another & hence largely like Roon, to pose your question on JRiver forum. Try to find out from JRiver users who have tried Roon, why they stick with JRiver.
I’ve only briefly tested JRiver not long before my subscription with Roon. I didn’t love it & felt for a few dollars Bubble UPnP worked just fine. Actually, I’ve never had an issue with it; just seamless playback from my personal experience. However, I no longer use Bubble at home; I use Roon.
Roon is not portable (unsure about JRiver), has heavier hardware needs compared to JRiver & it’s licensing is one ‘core’ per user. So, you can’t use it in your office for example on another computer - that would require another purchase. Nor can family members have their library set on your ‘core’ & have the ability to use it as their own. Such restrictions, I think need to be factored in when considering its usefulness to you.
I manage my library by Genres. Some, like Hi-Rez and DSD are my own. You CAN setup Roon so that it shows your own collection by Genre. It takes a bit of doing and some of the tricks are not obvious. I have 29 Genres, and now they all display properly when I navigate to Genres. I let Roon do the rest, and that works for me for now.
Roon is awesome for sound quality and DSP too, so it works as a solution for me.
The JRiver Expression Language is comprehensive and has recently been expanded
Visual View Builder is absolutely simple to use , no “computer wizz stuff”
Take my pet complaint box sets
I can define Custom Tags , BoxSet, DiscName, DiscVolume
I can define a View where BoxSet <> Empty (ie Box Sets)
I can define a View where DiscVolume <> Empty (eg Beethoven Edition)
I can apply an Overal rule FileName(path) Contains “Classical”
I can apply Individual art work per Disc (eg when a collection of albums)
By managing these I have perfect Box Set Management (the only thing missing is the ability to apply an overall Box Artwork to a collection, there is a feature request in for that)
How do I manage this in Roon non of these features exist. The best I get is a collection of Disc1, Disc2 Hyperlinks and a guessing game
I am a long term JRiver user and forum member so I can answer most of your queries
JRiver is “portable” you can set up to access your Media Server across the wider internet
JRiver has quite a complex UI but simpler Remote apps , if you put the effort into setting up views (as above) these transfer to the Remote apps (I use JRemote, MConnect and Cambridge audio Stream Magic)
I can’t speak for Bubble uPnP but I don’t think it has the same view structure.
Finally asking on the JRiver forum for Roon users is not too good an Idea ,I doubt many people would respond although its clear many people like me use both.
In the post above I comment that the comparison is difficult . There is a place for both and they each have a common set of features (Playback etc) but equally a diverse set of features (customisation in the case of JRiver) They are not directly the same “product type” for comparison and until you have experienced the features of each, comparison is difficult.
Seems I didn’t reply directly to the person referring to JRiver or didn’t use an ampersand - my mistake & I can’t recall who that was.
So, on that basis, I wasn’t expecting Roon users to ask about Roon on a JRiver forum, but the exact opposite: a JRiver user to ask about Roon and if it’s for them, given as you say there are some who use both and no doubt many more who have tried Roon and stuck to JRiver (over at JRiver).
The reference to Bubble was for the person/people who have their music ‘meticulously’ tagged & don’t require Roon to do that, further are not in need of the other features found here. It’s just a streaming app that displays albums art, with the music searchable via artist, genre, album etc. It also integrates some streaming services. It’s about $5 & does a flawless job of what it does!
I use this method: one folder for the set. Discs are numbered. Title of set is consistent-same and written in the “album” tag for each selection in the entire box set.Tracks for each disc are numbered 1-X.
This separates the view in Roon to show a set with separate disc 1, disc2, etc. You can also make a separate subfolder for each disc within gthe main folder, it seems to work better occasionally if you do.
This works for me to get the view of the box set to reflect the discs inside. Some sets come with tags already setup with one “album” name tag for all the discs in the set and numbered discs and then it all seems to work automatically in Roon. Below are two examples setup by disc just as I’ve described, where the box set in Roon is properly divided by disc.
I’m not sure what you are asking here. I also use the “work” and “part” tags to get what I want, if needed.
Roon also has an ability to group different recordings of the same classical work together in a set you define so you can browse all versions/performances you have of a specific composition. It doesn’t work perfectly, but pretty well, say if you want to get a display of all your versions of “The Rite of Spring”, for instance to display at the same time.
There are also ways to set up other groups. It definitely helps to read the knowledge base about this stuff if you haven’t done so.
No issues for me either with box sets as per your description. However, it did take me to retag some albums to reflect disc number and total, something that I’d not done previously.
I prefer this system now to separate folders where the album isn’t united and plays as a different album.
Admittedly extreme but I have many box sets of 20-30 -50 to 100 , it was and still is a cost effective of buying albums
Take Alfred Brendel on Philips = 114 discs , how do I find his analogue Hammerklavier ? without going via some other mechanism.
I repeat Box Sets are a mess , 5 discs maybe 12 discs OK but more a nightmare
the composition view is a problem too , as you see I have the complete works of Mozart (above) so I see 796 compositions , now I start typing to find what I need. Add to that being an avid collector I have box sets of the complete works of Bach, Beethoven, Brahms, Chopin etc
I could go on , there is desperate need to sub divide Box sets by disc name or evn genre but as it is at the moment its close to unusable (for me at least)
Okay, I don’t have any sets over 20-30 discs, so I don’t find it an issue.
I think you could use tags and subdivide the 255 discs to sets of 20 or whatever number you find manageable.
Are you familiar with this https://kb.roonlabs.com/Compositions and also grouping compositions? And with the bookmark tool?
You can bookmark all sorts of sorted groups and then just click on them to get tho them when you need them.
If you are interested in finding something like “Brendel Hammerklavier Analog”, I think if it is somehow tagged that way it will work - tag in disc title, comments, or work tag, for instance. I seem to find individual pieces that way without issue. But I tend also to put the source (SACD, LP, or bit rate in my tags, as well as performer orchestra and conductor).
Which is at least as frustrating as it is useful because
Roon returns as the top result a single track, but I want the whole work. If I click on the “Beethoven: Complete Piano …” next to the suggested track, I get given a 12 CD set, amongst which I might find what I am looking for,
So I go to the Composition, and get 6 possibilities from my own library, none of which are the performance referred to in the Top Result, and I also get 503 possibilities from Qobuz, hundreds of which are not performances of the full composition, just odd excerpts.
Yes I know about Bookmarks and Tags , I use both extensively
If you split into say 20 disc subsets you hit the next problem of Tag navigation, I don’t know how many boxes I have , maybe >100 , trying to navigate several hundred Tags is equally a nightmare
Bookmarks are even worse you have to Sort the list manually , I mean !!!
I muddle through using Artist, Composition view, the quickest way to Brendel Hammerklavier for me is via my Beethoven Piano Sonatas - Composition Bookmark then to the individual recording
I didn’t say I couldn’t it’s just it could be an awful lot better
Well that made my head spin - I never knew box sets of that size existed! I simply had to google it - absolutely magnificent!
You ask how to navigate this in Roon. This immediately made me wonder: How the heck do you navigate 200 discs?!
I presume you do it with the beautiful looking book that comes with it? Why not just do the same and use that with Roon?
Similarly with Brendel’s Hammerklavier - how would you know what disc it was on of the 114? This is genuinely intriguing to me.
I see , its one area where digital is better, you can visualise stuff, add tags etc, in real plastic discs you are no better off than the Roon hyperlinks and as you say the glossy books.
I have been fully digital for 10 years so I am spoiled.
In most cases the discs have some logic so you have a feel where to start, Mozart 255 is the exception
I have my albums categories by Composition which help, obviously Roon does that automatically, mostly
Classical is not an easy genre Rock you just go Artist and dig
