We close threads to put out fires. We had to close this one twice as the OP made a “last reply” in Support (now shifted to the subject thread) which inevitably attracted further responses. Moderating posts in an active flame war without closing the thread doesn’t work.
Well, I’ve never tried to be a mod, so I cannot argue with you on that point. I do appreciate the work that mods do. I would certainly though prefer if there was a way to put out the fire without throwing the baby out with the bathwater, to mix metaphors.
Having managed forum moderators for multiple companies, I’m in 100% agreement with andybob’s statements. The roon mods manage this forum with a very (admirably) light touch.
I still feel there is a tendency to close critical threads versus others. As above, I am not trying to induce or defend any critical threads and I am a dedicated Roon user. I just don’t like to see expression stifled except as necessary to maintain civility.
For example, I don’t think the motive behind closing the Folder View thread(s) was to put out a fire. IIRC the stated reason was that The Roon Team Hath Spoken.
In this case, it seems like the mods were actually trying to stop the flaming of the OP who was being critical, so I misunderstood that. There were definitely some uncivil comments on both sides of that debate.
Personally I’m really glad that the thread was closed.
Constructive criticism is great and very much needed. We know the Roon team listen, you might not get what YOU want but that’s life. Right from the off you knew that thread would descend into “Its all about what I want and what you should do, me, me, me, me, me, me, me”.
It certainly looked like the OP wanted to rouse people up and annoy them, the complete tone of his initial post was pointedly offensive.
Quite a few Roon subscribers seem to forget that the Roon team is pretty small and that major changes take a long time. Are they running the business, do they know what’s happening behind the scenes? Have they ever developed software of this complexity?
I’m paying for the software as it is NOW, not what I personally want it to be in the future. If it changes and I don’t like it or can’t adapt, I’ll take my money elsewhere.
Feature Request threads get closed when a feature is delivered or ruled out. They also get marked as [delivered] or [not on the roadmap] per Danny’s pinned category opening post of May 2015.
Well, I feel like I’m not getting my point across. I realize freedom of speech philosophies differ across the world. However, this alone to me is not reason to shut down a thread:
Personal insults yes. But “me me me me” while potentially irritating, and easy to disagree with, can be responded to without shutting off the thread. In this case the mods have said that the thread was closed because some of the forum regulars were ganging up and getting insulting, and that to me is legitimate. But not the above - irritating but no need to shut it down. Ignore it if it irritates you.
And there were some very valid points made in that post. Not necessarily by the OP.
Thanks for the link. This doesn’t say, though, that feature requests need to be closed.
The price of Roon is outsized compared to most if not all media apps. It’s better, I love it, but when you charge as they do, you do create a certain set of expectations. You naturally have to expect that some new trial users will see the pricing then try the product and, without yet discovering its true power, be disappointed with some of what is on the surface, and then comment on that.
For example, a new user will start their library and go to play a favorite song and it won’t be there because Roon may not have identified it correctly. They won’t know how to find it and their natural reaction is to look for a structured file/folder view to see if it was indeed added to the library. But that view isn’t there. We’ve all learned to love or at least live with that point. I’m not trying to restart that debate (here) … . but it’s a natural thing to look for, and then comment upon. A trial user would be justified in making that comment about freeware or something quite cheap, so of course making that comment about a fairly expensive product is fair game. Roon has made the decision not to implement folder view, and that is naturally controversial, so the Roon team themselves have already decided to live with the controversy and the rhetoric it creates.
There is just no call to shut down those comments, nor to pile on and tell those users that they should go elseshere. Those comments to me were just as rude as anything the OP said.
But I don’t think that was done. The original post and thread is still there - with the points that the OP wanted to say. Yes, perhaps some of the replies could have pointed out threads in the Feature Request forum where his points were addressed, but frankly, from the tone of the OP, I doubt that that would have helped much.
So, in summary, I don’t think it is proven that the mods close threads because they are critical (of Roon).
Well, this is not a court case and no one has any burden of proof. If nothing else, it may just be helpful to the mods to know that there are regular forum users that prefer as light a touch as possible when it comes to closing threads. Deleting bad posts, sure, but please think twice before just closing a thread.
Judging from this forum’s history, I get the feeling that the mods think more than twice before just closing a thread. My impression is that such decisions are not taken lightly. YMMV.
I didn’t see the thread’s decent into hating, but I knew it was coming. Evidenced by my (perhaps poorly worded; I should have added what I thought: “this is gonna get ugly”) 1st sentence in the first response of the thread.
…audio people (I wont even say ‘audiophiles’)… LOL! I’ve known you all (me included) well, since visiting Stereo Stores back in the mid 70’s. Hey, I was even a department (not store) manager at Crazy Eddie’s. Yes, I know us well… time, nor medium, has changed ya’ll a bit. Very big lol. (I do not include myself in that as I have mellowed with age. Two decades ago my opinionatedness would have gotten me a ban)
We do, you would be surprised just how much moderator discussion goes on quietly in the background.
You repeatedly cite the closure of the folder view feature request topic … I’m curious as to what other topics do you consider as being closed without due cause. Could you give us [mods] some specific examples?
I find it hard (and sometimes follow some threads) to express myself in the right words in a foreign language, but here I go.
I was about to start this post in the original thread, but then the topic was closed.
In the current era lots of people:
want it all,
want it now (immediate gratification),
don’t want pay for it, and,
it should not take any effort.
If one or more of the above is true, they’re going to shout what is wrong, cry and if possible blame others with an horrible attitude.
To me the OP is a full representative of the above.
A quick search on the forum would learn him most of his critics were discussed, sometimes to death.
I am with James when he says a thread should not be closed when it’s critical.
And there’s enough to be critical about. Roon is not mature yet. It”s like a good marriage, there is some love and some hate.
This thread was meant to - with no other intention - than to defy / irritate people on the forum and if I felt his “tone” right, there was no “integrety”. For example, why in your first post comparing with AOL/Apple.
So to me closing this thread was the right thing, it was heading in the wrong direction.
To quote the French: “C’est le ton qui fait la musique”.
In the proces two of my posts got deleted too. Just want to say I’m fine with their deletion. Although no harm was intended, you never know how they get interpreted. Appreciate the sensitivity of the mods here!
Sums up my feelings perfectly @Paulb
There were rude/offensive remarks on both sides but the OP obviously had an axe to grind in the first place. Why not send Roon an email or PM instead of deliberately posting rude/offensive comments on the Roon forum?
The whole remark about Roon being a dictatorship, well isn’t the OP trying to dictate what he thinks Roon should be? It is very easy to sit in front of your computer/tablet without having to look anyone in the eye and tell people how you think things should be.
“I took a Porsche for a test drive the other day. I didn’t like it, didn’t handle well when driving around the city, couldn’t stand the ergonomics and it was overpriced. Anyone who buys one is wasting their money. My points were valid IMO. I went on a forum and told everyone”.
I work for my father-in-law’s business and I have to deal with customers Facebook comments everyday. They cite freedom of speech to me when they have been rude and offensive. I have the freedom to delete said comments and I do. I’ll ask them to come to the shop so that I can look them in the eyes and try to sort out their issues, occasionally a customer takes me up on the offer and generally we can alleviate their concerns.
The way this is put across feels passive aggressive to me @James_I I guess you probably didn’t mean it that way. I enjoy reading your comments, they are thought provoking but I think that we’ll disagree on this one.
I know we are paying customers, Roon is expensive and that it is not perfect (try paying in Australian $) but I will say again if we don’t like their vision then we can take our money elsewhere.
I don’t think the mods close threads “because they’re critical.” I think they close threads because they get (or START OFF) rude or disrespectful.
Just wanted to mention this thread to those who’ve had posts deleted or modded. I can understand that it doesn’t feel very nice (I’ve been tapped on the shoulder and asked to edit my own post once or twice) but most people really shouldn’t be at all worried if/when it happens to them. You have to repeatedly and egregiously offend in order to create a bad impression with us. A wry smile is more often the reaction.