Mac Air 2013 / Mac OS 12.6.2
Asus Xonar Essence 1 / Bose Soundtouch / 3 x Apple Home Pod Mini
As a fairly new Roon user, I would be interested if and when the implementation of airplay 2 is planned. Thank you and best regards Peter
Roon doesn’t rely on the system Airplay of MacOs like many apps do as it would limit this functionality to Mac users only, Roon is multiplatform. It currently supports streaming via legacy Airplay to any Airplay client from any OS the core is running on as this code is mature and been fully reverse engineered and in the open source community for years. Airplay2 is not in this state and is still in a reverse engineering limbo. Parts of it have been achieved to make a non Airplay certified device receive an Airplay2 stream but not for sending streams via Airplay2 which what Roon requires this function is only supported on Apple devices. Until this is possible and its reliable you wont see it as Roon don’t aim to divide their user base with features only available on one platform.
This bums me out. I am device agnostic, I like trying gear from many companies. The one protocol that ties nearly everything together is airplay 2. Roon’s network integration for whole house music is far less reliable once you start pushing streams to a significant number of devices, I have paired Sonos speakers in the kitchen and bathrooms, I have a Node in the living room, a wiim in the bedroom, a HomePod in the dining room, a Libertone Zipp in the garage and a Samsung TV with a cheap amp and speakers on casters to roll out to the back patio for movie night. Almost all of it is wireless because the house is old. Roon can’t handle more than a few of the speakers at once with its cobbled together Airplay 1 legacy streams. The paired Sonos fall apart whether you use airplay or the Sonos protocol.
Meanwhile, I stream airplay 2 off of an Apple TV and every last speaker/device loads up lossless 44.1khz music without flinching. It seems nothing short of dogmatic for Roon to ignore this nearly universally implemented, reliable streaming protocol. The reality is that Airplay 2 is baked into Macs and a Mac as a core has a HUGE advantage for multi room. No one is saying Roon doesn’t stay multi platform, but intentionally not exploiting a baked in advantage on a Mac seems ridiculous to me. Pretty much every desktop app can stream airplay 2 off of a Mac. Roon is very much intentionally limiting a function. How’s that different from a “walled garden?”
“Divide their user base?” Are we going to rumble?
As it is, I love the Roon interface but I am cancelling again and going back to crappier interface that is far more universal. I don’t care about RAAT v Airplay 2. I care about having the most options for equipment so I can mix and match. I only use Roon in two rooms in my house for attentive hi fi listening. Then I have to switch to remote controlling an Apple TV through iTunes on an IOS device to use the rest of my house. Just let me use the core on a Mac mini and get out of the way, This is dumb. If it were due to a technical limitation that would be fine, but it isn’t a technical limitation, it’s dogma.
I can stream bit perfect to the wiim and the node without Roon using their native apps. I can’t stream to all my gear with Roon. If Roon wants my money, they need to do more to get it. I sincerely doubt I am alone in this considering how many airplay 2 Roon threads are out there.
It’s not universally implemented though is it. It limited to Apple devices to send AirPlay 2 streams out therefor it limits Roons customers. I don’t use a mac for my core therefore I can’t use AirPlay 2 why would I want them to add something I can’t not use nor a large part of the customer base use.
Welcome to the Roon community, @Matt_Reed.
It has to be a recent iOS, ipadOS, macOS, or tvOS device to stream. And that’s the crux of the issue: only apple devices can stream to AirPlay 2.
It’s not possible for Roon to exploit AirPlay 2 because Apple does not permit this. Endpoints may licence the technology, so can be used with AirPlay 2, but AFAIK there are zero third party streamers.
On the other hand, Roon’s RAAT is freely available (with certain conditions and certifications, which foremost seems to protect the user experience), and is why there is supports for so many partners devices.
RAAT also provides the best experience, especially with multiple endpoints. AirPlay is best left for consumer electronics, or those wedded to the Apple ecosystem (something I have extracted myself from recently.)
Please note, I am a community member, and do not represent Roon Labs.
That’s the thing.l.RAAT is only freely available in theory. Airplay 2 is ubiquitous in the real world. Airplay 2 is also reliable AND Roon 2.0 runs great on Apple silicone. So….who cares if you can only distribute airplay 2 audio from Apple devices? Why draw that line in the sand?
Brand loyalty or in this case disloyalty is silly. Exploit what the systems offer to their maximum capability and let consumers determine what they value. If the consumer wants to buy Roon Ready end points or build Raspberry Pis, great. If they just want to shove audio out to one of the 40 zillion different products that have airplay 2 implementations, let them. If it were an issue of quality or reliability I get why they would limit this, but it isn’t.
Roons job is not to be my daddy and tell me what to buy. Roons job is to offer solutions that work to as many customers who will value them.
Why do you care? You can use RAAT I can use airplay 2. We both can be happy.
I don’t care what protocols you use, I just hope you’re having a good time listening to music.
They are already limiting Roon customers by not allowing those with cores on macs to exploit their hardware to its full capabilities.
“It’s not possible for Roon to exploit AirPlay 2 because Apple does not permit this. Endpoints may licence the technology, so can be used with AirPlay 2, but AFAIK there are zero third party streamers.”
this is not correct. A Roon core on a Mac can easily exploit airplay 2. The API’s are readily available and nearly all if not all of the indirect competitors use the API…Every single streaming service of note is airplay 2 compatible if run on a Mac.
“RAAT also provides the best experience, especially with multiple endpoints.”
I would like to see some data that support this. Airplay 2 is incredibly reliable, I have had more dropouts on my network with RAAT than AP2…This is in large part why I am cancelling Roon.
It’s not that hard. Just let the consumers decide what they want to use.
No, it’s not. It’s only of use to people who buy Apple devices. Indeed, Apple’s market share has declined since the 1980s.
Not sure what this means. Any Hi-Fi manufacturer can integrate RAAT into their product without a licence fee (certification is also free.) Apple licence their technology, including cables, and connectors.
Moreover, Roon Bridge is freely available for macOS, Windows, Linux, and ARM.
Roon offers choice. You may use Apple products, Microsoft, Linux, and any combination of Hi-Fi. It seems Roon is brand agnostic. So, your statement…
…seems wide of the mark.
“No, it’s not. It’s only of use to people who buy Apple devices. Indeed, Apple’s market share has declined since the 1980s.”
Not entirely correct. For endpoints there are far more Airplay2 devices on the market than there are Roon ready devices. Other than one speaker, none of these devices are produced by Apple.
“Not sure what this means. Any Hi-Fi manufacturer can integrate RAAT into their product without a licence fee (certification is also free.) Apple licence their technology, including cables, and connectors.”
A hi fi manufacturer can implement RAAT without a fee, but they typically don’t. Meanwhile they happily add AP2 to their devices. There are far more AP2 implementations out there than RAAT. It is what it is.
“Roon offers choice. You may use Apple products, Microsoft, Linux, and any combination of Hi-Fi. It seems Roon is brand agnostic. So, your statement…”
I do use devices from all above in addition to using devices from a ton of different audio manufacturers. The easiest way to stitch those devices together with the best quality is AP2. Roon is basically blocking that function if you load your core on a Mac. That is not agonistic behavior. Not at all. They are literally blocking a function that my hardware provides.
This is irrelevant since only Apple devices can send music to them.
No they’re not, Apple is. Roon most likely would implement AirPlay 2 if Apple made it available for their use.
I can run my core on a Mac. That makes it very relevant.
All I am asking that Roon get out of the way and let me use the protocol that is already baked into my hardware. Implementing the API for those of us who choose that Mac core path is not some huge undertaking.
I am just asking for the option. Let me choose how to use my gear. Why is this such a big deal? I don’t understand why anybody else cares how I use my kit. I promise I don’t care at all how you use yours.
“No they’re not, Apple is. Roon most likely would implement AirpPlay 2 if Apple made it available for their use.”
it IS available for their use if the core is loaded on a Mac.
That is a great list and I own gear from some of the companies on that list. All of that gear also uses Airplay 2. Just at a glance, look at who’s not on that list.
Harmon Group (Marantz, Denon, etc)
Sonos
Yamaha
Technics
Sony
Samsung (can use as an AP2 endpoint in a home theater)
Pioneer
I could go on and on if I cared to bother. But my short little list above likely has more market share than all the manufacturers listed by Roon combined.
I so incredibly do not understand the pushback. I can not grasp for the life of me why people care about what other people do with their equipment. I am not trying to take anything away from the bulk of the users who prefer to run their cores on windows or use a Nucleas or a Nuk. All I ask is that Roon let me run my core on a Mac and use the AP2 implementation that is built in.
Thank you for your many responses. That helps me a lot - I can see a little more clearly now and have thought about it again.
For me (who uses the Core on a Mac / also paired HomePod minis) I don’t see the added value of Roon. So I will be using TIDAL alone on my Mac in the future. So I can listen to high-quality master recordings with the Mac via my DAC if I want to listen to high-quality master recordings via my system or via my high-end headphones. All the other time I control my Bose Soundtouch and HomePod minis via TIDAL and AirPlay2. With the TIDAL app, I can also listen to my playlists in good quality with my iPhone on the go (without always running a Mac with Roon Core at home). Perfect - I don’t need more…
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