· Something else
· None of the above
· Other
Issue: Managing clipping on Roon. I understand about Headroom and volume controls to help manage clipping. My question is, would a faster Mbps download speed help with reducing clipping at all? Many thanks.
Spark modem model 2
No it wouldn’t. If the speed is too slow, you get dropouts and other failures. If it is fast enough, then the data is where it’s needed when it’s needed. How much faster it could have been there doesn’t matter.
Hi @jacks.espace,
If there’s either a) sufficient packet loss or b) insufficient bandwidth in the network to damage the audio either during download or distribution, then playback just stops and an error presents in the UI.
Are you experiencing unwanted digital artifacts or issues related to gain staging/volume control?
Hi Connor, I’m experiencing a fair amount of clipping at relatively low volume levels and -4 headroom setting. Trying different combinations of source amp volumes and DAC volumes outside of the Roon volume control currently to see if it has an affect on clipping levels. Thank you.
Hey @jacks.espace,
If you’re able to share a screenshot of your signal path, that would be helpful for additional diagnosis. Thank you!
Clipping or clicking/stuttering? Those are not the same things.
But any actual clipping — either analog or digital — in downstream components is not Roon’s responsibility.
AJ
It might not be Roon’s responsibility but clipping (in the digital domain) can be caused by inappropriate use of Muse DSP.
Many DSP functions (e.g. PEQ, convolution filtering) have the potential to apply a positive gain. If this is not compensated for with the use of an appropriate heard room adjustment (negative gain) then clipping can occur and no amount of analogue volume reduction will remove it.
There are two approaches to remedying this situation if it occurs:
Change the problematic DSP operations so that they don’t apply positive gain (e.g. With PEQ, lower the correction across the whole frequency range until the highest point of the correction curve is at 0dB, for convolution, scale the impulse response [filter taps] such that they all have values less than or equal to one) etc.
Work out the maximum total (by adding in dB terms, the gains of each step in the DSP processing chain) and then applying a headroom adjustment or negative volume correction to cancel it.
The second method can also be done ‘by ear in Roon and then ebable the’ show clipped samples ‘’ so that the stream quality indicator dot goes red when samples are clipped and then increase the headroom u till it does not go red. The only issue with this method is that you may have to revisit (and increase) the headroom setting if later you play a different piece of music which is recorded at higher levels and thus clips earlier. Again this will be indicated by the stream quality dot going red.
Both of these methods amount to the same thing, and, if done correctly, will result in identical output.
Whenever I set up a new DSP chain, the first thing that I do is add a headroom stage enabled but with the headroom set to 0dB so that I can enable the ‘show clipped samples’
In Roon, the DSP processing is done after conversion to a high dynamic range sample format and so these operations can be done in any order you like because clipping will not occur in the middle of the DSP processing chain. It is only at the point of conversion back to a fixed point sample representation that the DAC can cope with that clipping occurs.
Outside of the DSP induced digital domain clipping, no other clipping is caused by Roon or Roon Settings.
However, there is one type of clipping that occurs with some DACs that, whilst it is the DAC that is at fault, can be fixed in Roon. If your dac suffers from ‘intersample overs’ where the anolgue interpolation performed by the post conversion low pass filter would result in levels greater than those that can be achieved by the DAC, then you can fix the by adding and additional 3dB of headroom (or -3dB gain).
Unfortunately., this type of clipping will not show as clipping on the stream quality indicator because it is an anolgue domain issue. The only way to know whether you have to worry about such clipping is to listen for it (not reliable in marginal cases) or measure the DAC (or go to another source such as technical documentation, if you are lucky, or technical reviews such as those produced on a well known audio review site - no matter how you feel about the validity of audio measurement, this is one area that can absolutely be identifies as a defect in a DAC by measuring it).
My Iqaudio PI DAC+ is one such DAC the does not handle inter-sample overs:
One of the deficiencies of Roon, as compared to other music serving solutions, is that it doesn’t keep an easily accessible log of clipping occurrences to easily verify your adjustments.
Consequently, you’d have to stare at the signal quality star for extended periods while trying to properly set headroom.
Better use a test file to unambiguously set and forget the appropriate headroom adjustment.
See following post of mine with a link to such a test file …
If your DAC output is too hot for your pre amplifier to handle, the music will clip even your pre amplifier volume at whispering low, using headroom management only reduce the signal strength at digital domain, if you DAC have output setting, check it at low/mid level or 2V RVA / 4V XLR preservative value.
True. But this is nothing to do with Roon, will occur with any digital source and can not be fixed, even for Roon use, by making changes to the Roon settings (or any other change in the digital domain).
