Is Tidal in trouble?

If I remember right (I started using Roon in May 2015), Tidal was already integrated. Which probably means that Tidal integration was already in at launch.

That correlates with my memory also.

Yep, I was a user of Roon from just after the start. Tidal was super popular on Head-fi but took flack for its UX vs. Spotify.

Roon got alot of buzz for providing a superior front-end for Tidal - the ability to integrate your local library with Tidal was considered some very nice icing on the cake.

I would find Roon much less useful without Tidal. That would hobble it’s music discovery potential. Obviously, the article cited here contains little information, but I assume that Tidal is struggling in the face of stiff competition. I have never seen an article indicating Tidal is on solid financial footing, although the Sprint cash infusion was good news. With Deezer opening up its high-res universe to a wider audience than Sonos, the competition is getting tougher. I discount Qobuz because of its limited geographic availability (including Canada and Brasil, where I spend my time). I had a Qobuz account in Canada a few years ago when you could simply request that they ignore their own restrictions; I don’t think they do that these days. I can’t cancel if Tidal and Roon are forced to part ways because I am a lifetime subscriber. However, I’ll be an extremely irritated lifetime subscriber if a streaming option ceases to be a reality with Roon. I have always thought that betting on one horse is risky; betting on what may be a lame horse is riskier still.

I really hope that Tidal will be fine, because without an option of a streaming service Roon will be quite useless to me. My own collection hasn’t been updated in years and for using internetradio a Chromecast Audio would suffice The integration of services is one of the strong points that makes Roon such a breeze to work with. But i would rather see that they provide a less integrated option of using another streaming service (Qobuz, Deezer or even Spotify Connect) than having none at all.

This isn’t the first time there has been this kind of news about Tidal so i bet the devs are exploring their options. Hopefully there will be more streaming options to choose from in the future. Even if access and integration are less than with Tidal, continuity seems more vital. And i can’t even wrap my head around the idea of a music player/software without a decent streaming option.

It will propably be less of an issue than the article is making us believe, but are Spotify, Qobuz and Deezer making a profit? So next month we could be reading an article about one of them. Then we would tell ourselves that we are lucky we are using Tidal :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

I wonder whether we are looking at this the wrong way. Rather than ask Roon to become the better front-end for yet another struggling streaming service, maybe we should be asking what would it take for Roon to become its own streaming service for the content that is high quality enough to make worth streaming this way?

Put differently, don’t try to compete in the rock, pop, hip-hop, dance, electronic, metal, or comedy sectors where so much of Tidal’s content/audience is. What if Roon instead became the streaming solution for a more limited focus on jazz and/or classical (which if I remember correctly is where Qobuz initially focused) that offered a high quality streaming answer to record labels focused on these genres?

Second, given its deeper system integration, might Roon offer a non-sound-degrading piracy-avoiding solution of its own that made it more MQA-like in that regard, but without all the hoopla and without trying to mess with the sound?

Last, a less-rich integration of the more caual listening content, so it can be used in a Sonos-like context, might be sufficient for that audience.

Any of the foregoing is asking a lot of a younger, entrepreneurial business with enough on its hands already, BUT, assuming you need to join other folks convention rather than create your own new reality is what got Roon started in the first place.

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I think Roon needs to be genre agnostic…

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I would much prefer Roon to be genre agnostic, but “need” may be a different question, certainly compared with the choice being no streaming capabilities.

Now that’s thinking outside the box I like! Of course it’s very easy to dismiss this as unachievable nonsense, but such an attitude won’t get you anywhere. Tidal tries to develop its own Roon, why not have Roon develop its own Tidal? Knowing Roon, it will just be so much better than Tidal!:grin:

Of course, there are many, many obstacles on the way, and chances are they may never get there, but hey, Rome wasn’t built in a day! And that’s coming from a person who doesn’t even stream, just playing my own albums in Roon😃 As long as it doesn’t take away all capacity for other developments, I would be okay with this, as I think it would benefit the long-term future of Roon.

So, in short: interesting idea, +1!

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God no! Would loose my custom straight away. More to HiFi than Jazz and classical. Should be more open not making it more niche.

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A few folks have said Roon backed the wrong horse - maybe. Not sure Qobuz is the right horse - not that long ago they were in trouble, and have now re-emerged with a new found arrogance. Spotify? I’ve replaced the end points around my house with Bluesound speakers and Nodes and have to say they are pretty fantastic. Until you try use Spotify. I have a new found sympathy for @danny when he talks about the integration options there. It isn’t a case of having a half baked integration… the experience is badly, badly sub-par.

So who is the right horse to back? Heck I’d probably back Google Play, and give users storage on Google Drive as part of the subscription (for your offline library). Last week I had a run in with a local Apple store and went out and bought an Android phone (instead of the X I was there to pick up) and bought a Google Pixelbook. I’m pretty happy with the experience so far and the opportunities it opens up going forward. :slight_smile:

edit: I know Google Play isn’t hi-res. Yet. But with GCP for the backend, Drive for users, a lot of metadata (Apple buying Shazam… what will Google do with all the metadata they have?) and a pretty API friendly outfit, it has potential. The other dark horse is Amazon.

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What’s so bad about Spotify on Bluesound? Is it just the lack of integration and reliance on their app and connect? Or is it just unreliable. Thinking of getting some of their endpoints.

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Quobuz cannot be the right choice for Roon it is only available in a limited number of Eurpean counties as yet. Yes you can use a VPN but Roon could not officially countenance that. Being limited to so few counties and with a company that went bankrupt since Roon launched cannot be right.

Roon becoming a streaming service is a completely different business that requires a whole other set of skills, resources and cost base. Makes no sense at all IMHO.

Whilst Tidals own app may be hip hop focused Tidal via Roon is not and has a vast selection of all Genres and in total more tracks than aniyother streaming services if this is correct.

There is so much classical and jazz on Tidal I’m not sure what people are really missing.

Fipithremore i think from what Danny has hinted at that another streaming source is on the way. Let’s see.

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Like adding Spotify Connect or Deezer in the U.S . We need options.

My microrendu added Spotify Connect to their software and I know Auralic is trying to add Spotify to their software. It is my understanding that Auralic is working on some integration feature with streaming services and their software.

Well its gotta be Spotify or Deezer .And when on earth is Spotify coming out with their lossless tier?

There have been rumors that Apple will ultimately come out with a lossless option. Sonos and Bluesound have the capability
of playing Apple Music and if they come out with a lossless tier it will be tough to beat. Even if they lost money , they wouldn’t care less. It would be there for good. No worries about that shutting down.
The question is Roon could probably get it added as a subscription service but would the integration violate Apple’s annoying rules?

Whenever Google can squeeze in it’s business with earning on adds the offer will survive more than two years, else will go to not avail. Happend with so many offers so far, including humanoid robotics, image processing, web services, …
So, in case google can bring you as Roon service user to be linked directly to add financers then the streaming service would become sustainable and successful, else will be stopped. Not clear to me if this solution would really provide me the service of what I would like to listenor what the add paying industry would like me want to listen.

What do you think Spotify Connect + Roon would look like? To me, that integration makes zero sense for anyone. Maybe I’m missing something…

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I wouldn’t care if you just wrapped the entire Spotify application in a window inside Roon, so long as the output could be routed through any available Roon endpoint.

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I think the key is what @jhwalker said. Having the ability to stream to RoonBridge from multitude of services would be nice additions.