Is Tidal in trouble?

I wouldn’t care if you just wrapped the entire Spotify application in a window inside Roon, so long as the output could be routed through any available Roon endpoint.

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I think the key is what @jhwalker said. Having the ability to stream to RoonBridge from multitude of services would be nice additions.

Absolutely No. Of course having more streaming services will be welcome, but only if the same level of integration as with Tidal can be reached. Any other kind of integration would imho contradict Roon’s goal.

There are lots of other ways to enjoy Spotify, but don’t spoil the Roon experience with half baked integrations.

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It would only make sense to integrate another streaming service if it can integrate like Tidal does with roon. I bought roon for my local library and Tidal is a bonus to me. Although listening habbits do differ between us all, so some might see Tidal as main reason and adding a local library, if present, as bonus.

Yes, Tidal is in trouble (which streaming service is or was not in trouble), we all have no indepth knowledge of talks behind those “closed doors” and maybe are getting ahead of ourselves and only adding fuel to rumours and speculations. We just have to wait and trust the roon team.

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I really don’t see the issue with using Spotify this way if it offers consumers choice and considering every other manufacturer has to do it this way it’s not half baked it’s the only way it seems… Yes I love Tidal integration into my library and would be amazing to have this with world’s leading streaming service but they don’t want that to happen. If you can add internet radio and not have the same beef what’s the difference here?

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I actually disagree completely that another streamer like Spotify could only ever be supported if it were fully integrated like Tidal is.

When my kids have friends round they want to play their own music from Spotify. To do so, I have to rig up some headphone jack-to-phono connections into a system. I resent having to do this.

“Dad, why can’t we just play through that like you normally do ?”

“Sorry Son, You can’t do that with Roon.”

Bang…20 young people totally turned off. They see zero value of Roon.

The solution for me would be a simple Spotify page much like the Tidal page. Just showing whatever Spotify shows just like Roon does for Tidal. A user would log in just like you would expect on the settings/services tab.

It doesn’t need to integrate with my local library. In fact I don’t want it to.

It simply needs to allow people to access the content and play through the normal Roon system architecture.

Sure that is different to an integrated Tidal service, but, it could be enabled on a switch like “squeezebox support” is. You only see it if you want to.

I think it is far more of an issue not to have any access to it than it is to break a ”rule” about how services should work.

Those 20 young folk might just become customers.

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Looking onto this from MQA perspective, if they want to live in the world of streaming only (any "MQA CDs comming ?), hold profits from Hi-Fi equip.manufacturers, etc. … they will either pump money into Tidal (43mil. songs library, 52 countries) in case of need, or speed up the announced Deezer/MQA (43mil. songs library, 185 countries) integration and wait for the winner.

Hi Nick

I don’t understand what you mean by:

and then:

I’m a little slow at the best of times but these quotes seem contradictory/confusing. Can you clarify.

Many thanks

I do not believe that Tidal has just 1 M subscribers. There is no evidence for this.

It isn’t unreliable. It is the reliance on their app and lack of integration. I guess the question is why buy into roon…

If it is for discoverability of music and rich metadata - then forget Spotify integration. It’ll do nothing for you. If it is for things like DSP, then I guess having a half baked integration may work… although I am not even sure if Spotify Connect allows you to alter the signal.

At the end of the day the experience in BluOS is so jarring that I end up using the Spotify app for Spotify and BluOS for everything else. Which I guess is what Spotify want you to do. I suspect if Roon did a similar integration I’d do the same thing - use it a few times and then decide I may as well use the Spotify app.

@dabassgoesboomboom

Sure thing.

Here is the Tidal page as seen in Roon.

You can access Tidal content and play anything you want. At this stage there is almost no integration with my local library. You don’t need really any integration with local library at this point.

Look at this album, for example, you don’t see all the other John Williams albums that I have on this screen. This album is still just a Tidal object as presented also on the Tidal app screens. Same sequence and content there.

.

Only if I “+ Add to library” will that integration really happen. Notice here that I added to library and it integrates with all the other John Williams albums.

If this were a similar Spotify page, I am saying you could do the same but just without the option to “+Add to library”.

Hope that helps.

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So if Tidal folds , you would prefer to see no music services in the platform , even if it’s as you call it , “half baked “ integration ?
I’ll take music services even if it can’t be integrated like Tidal is now .

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Many thanks, crystal clear now. An interesting idea.

It appears that Spotify want to control the complete UI/experience though. They want you to use their own app on iOS/Android (or desktop apps) and then stream to hardware via Spotify Connect.

Tidal in Roon still has a Roonified UI, even if you ignore the integration with your local library.

So this might still come down to Spotify allowing what you propose, rather than the Roon Team not being interested in it. Maybe both. Who knows.

I’m not a doomsday prepper, too many ‘if’s’ beyond our control. If Roon fails we will not have to think about this at all :roll_eyes:

I know it’s not official but LMS current implementation Spotify is somewhere between. You still cant add to your library but you can browse you Spotify library and find new music using LMS and play to any endpoint, also adding in connect support to. It’s based on Librespot and the current web UI they allow. It’s not perfect but it works. I know this is this approach may not be suitable for Roon but it’s another option. Apps like orange Squeeze on android also do a global search across all the streaming add-ons you have as well as your own library so makes kind of feels more integrated.

It is a Roonified UI in the sense that you are in Roon of course.

But just look at these two screens. The experience isn’t really Roonified from a content p.o.v. It is the same content and works perfectly well without the integration into the database. That only really happens when you commit an album to the library.

I am not familiar with Qobuz or Deezer but I imagine the same would apply via the API’s

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Hehe I would say it’s slightly more Roonified than just the sense of being in Roon - but I agree with you, probably not as much as I initially thought.

Just let them install Roon Remote on their iOS/Android device and let them browse Tidal via your Roon Core? :wink: I can almost guarantee all the music they listen to on Spotify will be there on Tidal…

I joke a little. I share your hopes. Who wouldn’t want Spotify working to Roon endpoints.

This whole discussion goes away if Apple buys Tidal in 2018. It get’s them hires streaming and access to additional subs.

I could see this as a possibility. There were rumors at one time about Apple trying to work a deal with Tidal.

And then they remove the APIs and we are back to square one.

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