There is nothing wrong with making feature requests - as the OP says it is a feature request. That said the clue is in word “request”. It is great we have this forum and that the folks from Roon engage with the users, and we can make requests. What we can’t do - and often do - is make feature demands.
Im the smartest person I know. Dunning-Kruger will tell you that (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger effect). What Roon should really do is implement all my requests. They should probably also ignore everyone else’s. Then they would have a fantastic product.
If Roon implemented everything we asked for, or if they implemented them in the ways we want we would end up with a half-assed product and experience. I’d rather we were frustrated that the product feels half done than half assed. Roon can take their time, evaluate requests, and when ready can implement them (or not) in the manner that works for Roon and preserves the experience.
James_I
(The truth is out there but not necessarily here)
42
I’ve been thinking about this for quite some time in observing posts on the forum, and sometimes considering my own posts. Maybe this is a different thread than the topic at hand…but…
This is somewhat inherent in Roon for two reasons:
ONE, Roon is substantially more expensive than its competitors. Not meaning to get in a debate about value and whether it’s worth it – certainly I am paying and thus consider it worth it – but when you charge what Roon does you sort of paint a target on your back…you create an expectation that Roon will eventually meet not only your needs but your wants that are not needs;
TWO, Roon adopters generally have to make some changes to their network topology to optimize the benefits. That tends to knock out the ability to use other apps and utilities in the same way we used to.
Good example is RAAT as an endpoint. I converted my audio PC into a headless endpoint so it’s a lot harder to play some random piece of media over my system than it used to be. For example my son sends me a 30 second clip of his music. I don’t want to go through the hassle of adding it to my Roon library to play it…but I can’t use VLC player without dealing with the headless endpoint directly…so I want Roon to transport that audio without interposing its library.
So there is both a sense of entitlement due to the pricing and a real suction of need based on what Roon knocks out of your system if you jump in with both feet. (And yes, obviously one could maintain parallel systems for the other purposes).
Again, not a comment on the value of Roon. Just noting the natural results of its positioning both in terms of price and configuration.
Technically “scientific” just means presenting a hypothesis and attempting to design a methodology to validate or refute it that eliminates all the variables not related to it–in this case including the variables you mentioned. There is no denying that in audio, which includes both physical and psychoacoustic effects, this is an extremely difficult thing to do. To me the headline suggested that maybe with levels properly matched, all processing that would present different bitstreams to the DAC eliminated and a panel of listeners unaware a priori which system they were listening to, they consistently identified differences and that many preferred JRiver over Roon.
(There are those who passionately believe such a statement would be true were it not for the fact that blind listening tests are invalid due to quantum uncertainties, nonlocality, or other effects)
I agree that, while software to compensate for the Fletcher-Munson effect is a perfectly valid feature request, the headline was a bit of a dishonest attention grabber.
*(An attention grabber, not dishonest. My very honest attempt is to get attention to features I think will make my favorite player, Roon, even better.)
James_I
(The truth is out there but not necessarily here)
45
Worrying about a title is to me taking this whole thing a bit too seriously. I mean, there is an art to writing something that engages people to respond. “Please implement loudness” wouldn’t have been nearly as interesting.
That said I don’t have an issue with a philosophical discussion about what “scientific” means or its methods.
I didn’t mean to suggest there was any great harm in it (especially compared to the dishonesty that emanates from nearly every politician’s mouth on a daily basis). I don’t really care if someone, expecting a discussion of how different software ostensibly feeding identical bitstreams from the same hardware to the same hardware sounds different, was disappointed.
No, it’s you who are misconstruing me. What I meant was, someone could have read your title, jumped in eagerly expecting an audio voodoo discussion, read what you actually wrote, and been disappointed.
Just buy yourselves some Meridian DSPs - loudness, tilt, etc., all built in and switchable at the click of a remote and all carried out transparently in the digital domain
Don’t personally use loudness much, as DSPs already compensate for low listening levels, but occasionally use tilt to compensate a little for overly bright or muddy recordings.
I honestly find the flexibility useful so I can understand the request for these kinds of features to be added to Roon. I would use them if I had non-Meridian kit.
I liked your post and I think I might have another point - What do you feel about the level of engagement Roon devs have with the Roon Community?
Perhaps a new topic is warranted.
You will see me active on both , as mikeo on JRiver
The 2 products have very different features. I have been a JRiver user for 7 yrs, Roon for 7 months
The jury is till out, the comparison is apples and pears so I finish up running both.
Eg I run a Samsung Soundbar for my TV and background music, via DLNA . Roon can’t do this.
Classical navigation is still wanting in Roon
I agree sound quality is subjective but everyone’s entitled to a chirp now and then
Mike
James_I
(The truth is out there but not necessarily here)
67
It’s definitely a new topic versus loudness contour. On engagement, I’ve never seen a team as engaged with their users as the Roon team.
Individual developers developing software as a hobby or second stream of income…sure I have seen quite a few instances where there is even more developer/community interaction. But when it comes to a company with full time employees being engaged, I’ve never seen more than Roon.
This topic seems to have drifted quite a bit, but I think the idea of a Fletcher-Munson type volume control’s a great idea to add to the DSP toolkit in the future.
