Feature request: Linn DS support in Roon [done in 1.5]

GREAT :relaxed:

  • ROON 1.2 now supports headless NAS
  • ROON offers remote control for iOS resp. iPAD

STILL MISSING :hushed:

  • native support for my LINN KDSM/1

Just ordered a QNAP 671 to be ROON-safe for the future :point_up:

therefore: have not yet ordered ROON

I promise to purchase ROON lifetime as soon as ROON offers native support for LINN DS!

Any news when this will be available?

1 Like

Hi @fschmeis,

No news has been announced. At one stage Linn was saying it didn’t know enough about RAAT, that ought now not be the case after release of the SDK. I think Roon have established that they will work with anyone interested by the certifications that have been given and which are in progress.

Asking about Linn’s plans on the Linn forum may be more productive as Roon is ready, willing and able.

1 Like

Yip, it’s not a question of Roon supporting anything, more a question of Linn making a decision to enable Roon support in its hardware.

Well, in all fairness, it’s a question of both. My preference would be to see Linn implement RAAT support, but Roon could also build in support for SongCast or (even more of a long shot, I admit) OpenHome.

Either way, I am among the many impatiently waiting for these two companies to figure out how to work together. Am using a Raspberry Pi running Roon Bridge into my Linn DSM for now, but this obviously shouldn’t be necessary in the long run.

I’d guess both OpenHome and SongCast support may arrive via someone’s efforts to leverage the Roon API when released. As things stand you’re able to send an audio stream to your Linn device, just not directly. It’s not reasonable to expect Roon to develop a set of protocols for every hardware manufacturer out there. RAAT was written to deliver the highest fidelity the Roon team know to deliver and they’ve made an SDK available for anyone making hardware to implement natively. They’ve taken the horse to the water but they cannot force it to drink nor should they employ a vet to find another way.

Thanks for the thoughts, Evan. I agree that Linn’s implementing RAAT would be the best way forward. From Linn’s point of view, though, it’s also not reasonable to ask Linn to support every streaming protocol that comes down the pike. OpenHome and SongCast are both open source and available for use without any requirement of certification from Linn. I therefore understand Linn’s view that Roon (and other player software) should just implement SongCast or OpenHome support, despite my preference for seeing RAAT support implemented by Linn.

Given the above, I don’t think it would be outside the realm of reason for Roon to decide to implement SongCast or OpenHome support. Roon did a great, and quick, job of addressing Squeezebox support, even though that platform has been abandoned by its original manufacturer, and has also supported HQPlayer which, for all its merits, is a niche product. I obviously don’t expect everyone to share my priorities, but don’t think Linn support should have no priority.

All of this is said as a fan of both companies. I’ve been using Linn in my main system for around 10 years, and now have multiple rooms running Linn DS devices. I’m also a lifetime Roon subscriber. To me it seems obvious that these two companies should manage to get their platforms working together in a way that is not dependent on AirPlay or Raspberry Pis.

2 Likes

Let’s ask @brian if SongCast is still on the Roon map or if Linn have made any steps towards RAAT.

Ok. @brian?

Could je respond @brian ?. The outcome will be determining if i will cancell my annual subscrition or turn into a life timer. make us happy :+1::+1:

The Linn answer is slightly arrogant though. Their questions are almost all answered here: https://kb.roonlabs.com/RAAT

Linn is a strange player: while Linn and Roon do not compete directly, OpenHome and RAAT do compete to an extent–in the sense that we are both trying to get our respective streaming/control technologies integrated into a similar set of hardware products.

The best approach–from both a technical and product standpoint–is for Linn to support RAAT on their devices. It will give the tightest integration and the best interoperability with the broader set of existing and upcoming Roon Ready devices. That is the solution we are pushing for. Our talks with them plod along.

So it is mostly a question of when Linn will come around. For us to implement Songcast or OpenHome at this point, just for the sake of forcing interoperability to happen sooner–now that RAAT is in the marketplace and becoming established would be a desperate move–and we are not that desperate.

5 Likes

That last paragraph is a beaut, and I suspect, justified. I saw too much of the NIH syndrome from organisations in my working life, and often from departments within the same company (Microsoft, I’m looking at you…).

@Brian i find it very dissapointing that were still at the same point we were 10 months ago (zero progress). You won’t support Linn open standards and Linn won’t support your standards. You couldn’t make songcast happen and dropt it. You call it a desperate move i call it client support. I guess my journey with Roon (renewal) ends here since i am unable to use Roon, best of luck to you.

2 Likes

I understand your position, and I’m sorry it hasn’t worked out for you yet. I’m hopeful that our products will work with Linn’s at some point in the future.

10 months ago was a very different environment–we were a brand new company, RAAT was still a work in progress, and the only possible avenue was to integrate with Linn’s existing stack. We did strongly consider implementing Songcast. It’s still not in the “no way, never” category–but we are leaning away from it because a better option exists now.

A RAAT-based integration is a better final outcome for our shared customers than doing one-off support for Songcast in Roon. The latter would involve some warts/compromises, and would greatly reduce the chances of Linn supporting RAAT natively in the future–which is the place where we actually want to end up from a product + technology standpoint.

We have ~60 companies in various stages of the Roon Ready program right now including many of Linn’s competitors. There is no good reason that we can see why Linn shouldn’t be #61.

So at the moment, Linn is being treated fairly just like every other hardware manufacturer. Personally, in your shoes, I’d be encouraging them to support RAAT, as that is the shortest path to the best outcome.

Or you can just unsubscribe, wait, and see. I’m fairly confident that the two products will work together eventually.

5 Likes

@brian, thanks for the response, even though this remains a disappointing situation. I think you will find that Michael and I are among the many users pushing Linn for Roon integration on Linn’s forum. In the meantime, any support from the Roon side would be greatly appreciated by this lifetime subscriber. It’s frustrating to see, for example, Squeezebox support quickly rolled out but still no action on the Linn front, on the theory that inaction will prod Linn into motion.

Squeezebox is a very different situation:

  • There are many times more Squeezebox units in the world than Linn–it was a mass market product.
  • There is no technical possibility of integrating RAAT directly across the Squeezebox line, even if we wanted to.
  • Even if it were possible, there is no company to do the work, since Logitech has stepped back.
  • The barrier for entry into the Squeezebox community is significantly lower–that community is much more likely to tolerate a product with compromises, and we did compromise the Squeezebox integration in order to get it out the door quickly. A viable Linn product must be built to a higher standard if Linn dealers are to sell it as an equal alternative to Linn’s software.

That last point is important–if our solution is not supported by Linn, and is not sold alongside Linn products as an equal alternative, then it will not succeed. Sure, it might make a handful of existing users happy–and there is some value in that–but it will not give us the ability to sell into the Linn user base (present and future)–which is the thing that will actually write the checks that get the feature built.

The goal here isn’t to prod Linn into motion with inaction, but we do need to conduct our business sanely, and it’s important to us to make good product–not just to get something working. Clearly, our two companies have not come to a point where people are writing code. I’d like that to change. We are in communication with them, and I’m sure that there will be an announcement when things become more firm in any direction.

1 Like

Yes, fair enough. Apologies for venting publicly. It’s just frustrating being one of the handful of existing users. On the bright side, I’ve learned more than I ever expected about Raspbery Pis and the like.

3 Likes

I am also disappointed and will not renew until there is a solution.

There’s nothing stopping you from using a RPi or ODROID as a RAAT transport to get the audio signal to your DS.

@evand this only will work for an LINN DSM. So for the majority this is not a option. But if you know something that i am not aware of please show me the way :grin: