Lost Album Artwork

Running Roon 1.4, Build 298
Mac OS 10.13.1
I’m currently playing on my desktop speakers direct out of my Mac Pro 2013 ("Trashcan), 6-core, 64 GB RAM, 1 TB SSD, music is stored on Netgear NAS 7TB (I am using 2 GB for AIFF files read by Roon, and have in total used 3 TB for all my files). I have about 370 CDs in my library and about 7500 tracks. I have an equal number of Tidal albums. When I add CDs I use dbPoweramp.

I have lost my album artwork (maybe in the upgrade process from 1.2?), to 1.3, to 1.4. I have searched the Knowledgeable for instructions on how to force Roon to re-recognize the album artwork, and can’t seem to find instructions on how to do this.

Are you missing artwork just on your local library albums or on both library and Tidal albums?

I’m missing both local library albums and Tidal albums, although I do have a few random covers from Tidal albums. No covers from CDs I have ripped, including CDs ripped now.

Hi Michael – sorry for the trouble here.

A couple questions to help @support get started here:

  • Where are you missing the artwork? In the browsers? On the album pages? Everywhere? Does this happen for TIDAL albums outside your library as well (if you navigate to TIDAL via the sidebar and pick something from their top charts, for example)?

  • Are you running Roon anywhere besides the Mac Pro? If you are using another device as a Remote, is the art missing there too?

  • Do you have backups configured to run automatically? If so, can you tell us where your backups are saved to?

A couple questions to help @support get started here:

Where are you missing the artwork? In the browsers? On the album pages? Everywhere? Does this happen for TIDAL albums outside your library as well (if you navigate to TIDAL via the sidebar and pick something from their top charts, for example)?

MGB: When I open Tidal directly (not through Roon) I see the album covers. When I open Roon and go to Tidal from the sidebar, I don’t see any album covers in Tidal. When I go to my library, I see a few album covers of CDs I have scanned recently, but this is by no means uniformly true - in fact, a minority of recently-scanned album covers are shown. Out of 770 CDs and Tidal-linked albums, I see 6 CD covers and 12 Tidal covers. I have roughly equal numbers of Tidal-linked albums, and CDs I have ripped.

Are you running Roon anywhere besides the Mac Pro? If you are using another device as a Remote, is the art missing there too?

MGB: I am only running Roon on my Mac Pro. I have not gotten to the point of having a dedicated music server - I want to get my CDs ripped to the NAS and everything working properly, then incorporate a music server in the listening room, and convert the NAS to backup status so I can avoid using our home network to send music streams from one end of the house to the other. So, at the moment everything runs on the Mac Pro.

Do you have backups configured to run automatically? If so, can you tell us where your backups are saved to?

MGB: I don’t have backups configured to run automatically. I am starting the process of backing the NAS up to Backblaze2 using Retrospect - this is to protect my data by backing it up to a real data center. This process is in its infancy and hasn’t yet started with my music files - I’m backing up other shares at the moment.

Hi @Michael_Bade ----- Thank you for touching base and providing the requested feedback, both are very appreciated!

I do have one question in regard to this reply you gave Mike:

Q: “Do you have backups configured to run automatically? If so, can you tell us where your backups are saved to?”

(MGB) “I don’t have backups configured to run automatically. I am starting the process of backing the NAS up to Backblaze2 using Retrospect - this is to protect my data by backing it up to a real data center. This process is in its infancy and hasn’t yet started with my music files - I’m backing up other shares at the moment.”

My sense is that you response was referring to how you are backing up your musical collection on the NAS and Mike’s question is asking about where you have been saving your “Roon backups”.

-Eric

My Roon backups are on my computer’s HD, and my music files are on my NAS.

Hi @Michael_Bade —— Thank you again for the feedback, the insight is appreciated!

Based on your latest, it sounds like you may be saving your Roon backups into the “RoonBackups” folder inside your Roon database (i.e your Roon folder). If this is indeed the case, we are aware of a bug that can lead to database corruption when backups are being saved in this manor - - we’ve seen this behavior occur maybe, twice.

What ultimate ends up happening is that you start creating backups of your backups, because when a backup is performed the DB (and it’s contents) gets snapshot and saved.

-Eric

Can I send you screenshots of where things are? If so, how?

I use dbPowerramp to rip to AIFF files which are stored in a folder on my Media/Music share on the NAS called MBRW Music AIFF. There is also an empty folder in this share called Roon Backup.

On my Mac Pro SSD I have Macintosh HD/Users/michaelgbade/Roon Backup/Roon Backup and Roon Backups (two separate files). Both of these appear to have backup files in them. Roon Backup looks like Roon Backup/Roon Backups/44056d11-2c9e-ac2e-ab97b8f630bf/ which contains four items called: _roon_backup, a folder called backups, a file called name, and a folder called objects. backups contains a file called backup_20170903200149_c50deeb2-5dfd-4782-b7fa-365680d84773, and objects contains a list of folders, each of which contains more folders, each of which contains a file.

Roon Backups goes directly to a folder called 44056d11-2c9e-ac2e-85b5-ab97b8f630bf which contains which contains four items called: _roon_backup, a folder called backups, a file called name, and a folder called objects. the backups folder contains a file called backup_201709170025_8c78ee0f-6e2d-4565-a2f8-f3028f4bd597 and the folder called objects contains much the same folder structure as the objects folder buried in Roon Backup.

I also have a file named Roon in Macintosh HD/Users/michaelgbade/Music/Roon - this file doesn’t appear to have anything in it.

None of these are folders or files I have created. I have simply upgraded whenever Roon told me to upgrade, so I assume that this proliferation of (potentially conflicting) folders and files have been created in the upgrading process, from version to version. So, I guess the question is what to do? Which should be deleted? Should I delete Roon entirely and re-install? I need direction on what to do - this is not something the average Roon user is going to know how to fix. It appears to me that as the different upgrades were implemented, the Roon Backup(s) folders have been created in an inconsistent way, and while avoiding writing over former backup files seems like good practice and the right thing, there should be a tool that removes the former backups when everything is up and running correctly. Us users shouldn’t have to go through this hell.

Thanks for touching base with me @Michael_Bade, the insight and patience are both very appreciated! My apologies for the delayed response.

Continuing forward, I would like to see if we can trigger a change in behavior with your Roon setup by performing the following:

  • Close all active instances of Roon.
  • Locate your Roon database according to these instructions on the machine currently hosting your Roon core.
  • Rename the entire Roon folder to roon_old
  • Relaunch Roon and try restoring from one of the previously created backups you have.
  • Please confirm if the artwork is still missing.

Note: If you notice the issue still present when you perform the restore you may need to try again with an older backup.

-Eric

Eric,
Thanks for getting back to me. I will have to do this on the weekend - no worries about taking care of this slowly! A few clarifications:

  1. By closing all active instances of Roon, I assume that you mean not launching the program when I boot my computer.

  2. I had been wondering if I should just rename the older of the two versions of the “Roon Backups” folder… but maybe I’m barking up the wrong tree…

I haven’t got an endpoint set up, though I have a new Sonore ultraRendu sitting in its shipping box waiting for the power supply to ship, which should happen sometime after the 21st - I want to get this cover art issue behind me so I can set up the end point without confusing things.

@Michael_Bade ---- Please see below. Thanks!

“By closing all active instances of Roon, I assume that you mean not launching the program when I boot my computer.”

  • Whenever I propose a test that involves a user accessing/making slight changes to their Roon database I always recommend closing the application on all active Roon devices, so this would not only include just the core machine but any active Roon remotes, etc.

“I had been wondering if I should just rename the older of the two versions of the “Roon Backups” folder… but maybe I’m barking up the wrong tree…”

  • Renaming the two “Roon Backup” folders isn’t going to change anything in regard to the state of your current Roon DB. Renaming the Roon folder as proposed in my previous will be the way to go :wink:

-Eric

OK, so I have followed instructions and have gotten to the point of selecting a backup to restore. I have three (3) to choose from, as identified by the Backup Manager:

  1. 2017 Sep 17 Version 1.3, build 262
  2. 2018 Feb 5 Version 1.4 build 298
  3. 2018 Feb 11 Version 1.4 build 300

I will back up from the 2017 Sep 17 Version 1.3 file. However, when I hit Restore I get a message that says:

Confirm Restore
Are you sure you want to restore this backup? This process can take a long time and cannot be undone.
Restoring a backup will permanently overwrite any changes made since your last backup. Are you sure you want to proceed? (YES or NO)

This gives me pause. I have ripped a lot more CDs into my database since Sep 17 of last year, under Version 1.4. Will I lose this data and have to re-rip the files? If I lose the data since Sep 17 2017 can I restore from the Feb 11 2018 backup and only have to re-rip 50 to 75 CDs? Or will the Sep 17 2017 data only overwrite the data that was in the database at that time, leaving the data entered subsequently intact?

Should I force a backup now, before I do anything, and thus have a current backup to restore from after I backup from the Sep 17 2017 data, assuming that I will lose everything since Sep 17 2017 when I backup from that backup?

It is clear to me that different versions of Roon have created Roon Backup folders in different locations as I have upgraded from Roon 1.0 to 1.4. I have upgraded to each new version, and to each new build, when prompted. Which Roon Backup files should I delete when I am done with harmonizing the data? (I see the process I am engaged in as dealing with the situation I have just described, which happened because of the way the software works from version to version, not because of any action by me).

Many users must be in the situation I am in now. I suggest that Roon Labs should build a tool into the software which people in my situation can use to consolidate program files properly.

I’ll let Eric answer some of your other questions. But, as an FYI, Roon backups are backups of Roon meta-data only, the music files themselves are not part of Roon’s backup. You need to back up your actual music files using some other method. I clone the music onto a 2nd drive as well as have a weekly backup via a 3rd party backup software, I use Acronis personally.

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Thanks, Rugby - I back my music files up to Backblaze2 using Retrospect, off the RAID 5 NAS where they reside…

So, I guess my question is that if I back up off the Sep 2017 Version 1.3 instance, and the restore overwrites the metadata from later ripping activity, can I get the later metadata back into the database, and if so, how?

Well, it depends on what you mean by meta-data from ripping activity. @Eric can correct me, but, I assume that Roon will notice the “new” CDs (those ripped since last Sept) and re-run its identification and audio analysis. Now, if you made changes to any Roon meta-data since last Sept. those will obviously be gone because they happened after the backup and you’d have to redo them.

Although, please wait til Eric chimes in with the official word before restoring.

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The Backup Manager identifies 3 backups I can restore from - one in Sep 2017, which would (presumably) contain the missing album art I’m trying to recover, and two very recent ones, Feb 5 and Feb 11 from 2018. If the current metadata is overwritten when I restore from the Sep 2017 backup, can I restore from the Fen 11 2018 and get a complete metadata set assembled, or not?

The process of upgrading from build to build and version to version seems to have left a trail of Roon Backup folders within my computer HD. This conversation seems to presume there is a conflict between different versions of backup folders. But, something subtle is goin on and I want to proceed carefully under guidance so that I do as little harm as possible. This is why I am stuck on this step at the point of restoring from backup that says the step is unrecoverable.

Hi @Michael_Bade ----- Thank you for touching base with me.

Would you kindly use the directions in my previous post and try restoring from the “September back up”. I would like to verify what the stability of the setup is (i.e is the artwork still missing) with this older back up in place.

Looking forward to hearing your observations!
-Eric

Well, I started following your directions. I got stuck on the prohibition that the next step (backing up from the Sep 17 2017 backup) was irreversible. However, what I did (which shall forever remain a mystery because it was a week ago when all this started) caused Roon to set up as if it was a new install when I opened it up today, and at the moment I am watching the database rebuild. It’s in process as I write. What I don’t know until this process is finished is whether the consolidation of CDs into multi-disk sets will need to be re-done, disk by disk. It looks as if I will have to reconstitute my multi-disk sets, unfortunately, from the artwork that is flashing by.

Even though I directed Roon to the specific folder I use to store my high-quality files (AIFFs, etc.), it is also sucking in my iTunes music (which I did NOT want!) so several thousand MP3 files are now being pulled in as well, all of which are duplicates of the AIFF files… it’s all going by so fast that I can’t tell if Roon selects the highest quality files automatically, or if the MB3s are going to be the bane of my existence. I wanted to keep iTunes focused on MP3s and Roon completely separate on AIFFs, high-resolution PCM files, and DSD files. iTunes feeds my iPod which I use in the car and while traveling, and Roon with Tidal was intended to feed my audio system (on which the differences in quality (between MP3, AIFF, high-res PCM, and DSD) will be instantly apparent. Any thoughts on how to manage this unwanted new situation?

OK, importing just stopped. I can see that I will have to rebuild my boxed sets. There are now 2,177 albums in the database, between the AIFF album folder and the iTunes folder.

By the way, all the album artwork came back, Tidal and all.