At the end of the day, Peter won’t answer questions properly with regards to this subject, that is fairly evident, so you have to draw your own conclusion as to why this is.
This is my opinion;
Lumin intentionally designed the newer Lumin units with internal PSU’s to reduce the amount of people upgrading it to the likes of the Sbooster or external LPS. This then means that they are then more inclined to upgrade to a higher priced Lumin with an LPS. I don’t personally think it has anything to do with ‘dealers’ requesting an integral PSU. It was a pure marketing decision to increase upgrade purchases, they know full well the improvements an LPS makes, hence why they supply them with their more expensive models. Trying to hoodwink customers by quoting other manufacturers who don’t like LPS’s/Quiet PSU’s is pis* poor customer relations. Just be honest! its far more respectful
LPS’s are 100% better without a doubt, as much as Robbo Watts wants to say they aren’t, every device I own has been made infinitely better with an LPS, even my previous Chord 2Qut (which was junk anyway, the Quiet PSU from IFI just made it a little less junk!)
Having just upgraded my friends D2 with an Sbooster, the differences in performance where a revelation. It’s a simple process, and also very simple to reverse if required. I may do it to mine, but I am looking to change to a DAC/streamer that has a digital input so it becomes functional as opposed to restrictive.
The Lumin D2 is still a great unit, but personally for me, I find it a little expensive for its functionality, and you do see its limitations when it gets to badly recorded materials - the typical standard budget hifi situation where it can become a little nasty dealing with the poor records. I have found the more you spend, the better this handling becomes…but thats Hifi all over, and not neccesarily directed at Lumin.
They might be better in your opinion, but please don’t make misleading, categorical statements that aren’t true.
Switching power supplies are used in all of my Linn kit. They work fine, and I very much doubt a company such as Linn would have fitted a switching power supply to an £8k Klimax Kontrol preamplifier if they thought if didn’t sound great.
This is a bold statement which you are presenting as fact but may or may not be true. That said, as a D2 owner I’d have much preferred it if Lumin had taken the same approach as the Mytek Brooklyn, which has both internal SMPS and an external input if you want to use a different PSU.
It is ‘true’ simple as, but at the start of the thread it also states in my opinion. Companies do what they need to maximise profit, nothing new or unusual about that. a $10 PSU sure beats a $50-80 one and Hifi is ‘built’ on the ‘upgrade’ marketing racket…and Linn are in financial trouble so I hear?..
I like bold statements.
But yes, that would have been a good idea regarding the D2, I wasn’t aware the Brooklyn did that, definitely a splendid idea…but may have cost an extra couple of cents profit so may have been thought about and decided against.
With some measure of indifference to the LPS/SMPS debate on the D2, I’m still wondering if it could be a compatible match with my Naim SN2 and Sonus faber Cremona Auditors, both of which offer a thicker, darker sound signature.
The Naim forum nearly accused me of heresy to entertain such an idea!
Lumin are difficult to get home demo’s of, in fact I spoke to almost every dealer (and no reply from the distributer) and only one said it was ok, buy it on a sale/return basis if I didn’t like it.
Aurelic on the other hand had multiple dealers who offered home demo’s.
You can invoke Distance Selling Regs, so you can buy it, try it and return it if its no good to you, I probably did the wrong thing by asking first. Should have just bought done that…but it worked out for me anyway, I would probably be keeping it if it had a digital in.
One thing to say, is using an LPS with it, does remove some of its more laid back ‘thick’ sounding nature, so might work out for you if thats your budget. Im looking at the new Lindemann Musicbook Source now which is Roon ready.
A piece of equipment is much more than just its power supply, and as I’ve already said as an example. Linn would have fitted LPS’ to its equipment if they thought they sounded better than the switching ‘Dynamik’ power supplies. They don’t think they sound better, therefore they didn’t fit them.
Rob Watts at Chord is of a similar opinion, and can justify this with his equipment.
Saying that, as Peter has already alluded to, cost does enter into the equation. The D2 is Lumin’s entry-level model, and like the D1 before it comes with a switching power supply.
The A1/T1/S1/U1 & X1 were designed to use an LPS, but this comes with an additional cost. The D1/D2/U1 Mini weren’t designed with an LPS in mind.
With Lumin, it’s a simple case of You pays your money, you takes your choice’!
Thanks Mikey. You clearly have some firm opinions! Here in France, if I couldn’t do a home demo then the internet sales law allows for 10 to 14 days return if not satisfied. One confusing point: most of what I’ve read on the SB LPS mod indicates an even thicker sound is obtained with slightly deeper bass response. You didn’t seem to have the same experience? Anyway, the debate and demo challenge I have now is Lumin D2 plus SB or Naim ND5xs2 for the same cost…
Not sure if you’d intended this as a reply to me but, if so, I’ve not tried to argue differently - I’m merely suggesting that giving options is a good thing and would inexpensively address one of the main preoccupations of this thread! This can only be good for the brand.
T o try and put it into words, with the SB, the bass is definitely enhanced, but it is deeper and more precise. I definitely don’t think a thicker SQ happened, but it became more natural (as most components do with LPS’s are added), the removal of the digital hash from sMPS’s translates as a more natural sound and peaceful silence. Measurebators will say this ‘noise’ is below ‘audible’ level, but it’s clearly apparent.
I’ve never tried Naim Hifi stuff, only the Muso’s. I do like Naim and they definitely put a lot of RD into their products, they have been around a lot longer than Lumin, but when it comes to digital this may or may not matter, but using it as a DAC as well, means that Naims historical knowledge could be good. But the D2, imo looks nicer!
Also David, the Naim has multiple digital inputs. Really consider this. I thought at the time of buying the D2 it won’t matter, etc etc, but it did end up mattering further down the line. Even just to plug my telly into the system, I now have to buy an alternative DAC.
True…it’s a tough choice that only a home demo will help to resolve. Both machines appear to be nice. BTW, the Naim unit does not allow subsequent PSU upgrades. The NDX2 does but it costs probably 6K USD. Thanks for your reply.
It might have to be buying a couple of units on your CC and testing them back tto back. I do know the Lumin took days of constant use before it came on song, so bare that mind also.
Unusual for Naim not to often PSU upgrades
The pair of WM8741 used in D2 was the flagship DAC chip of Wolfson in its era. And if you’re not a lifetime Roon subscriber yet, also consider native Qobuz Hi-Res support.
Thanks for your reply. Yes, I don’t doubt that they were good chips at the time but I’m not familiar with their sound, even if implementation is of great importance. I have noticed that they are heavily discounted these days and are among the least expensive chips available…Will have to have a listen of course to decide.
One technical question for you: this has nothing to do with firmware design, but…Lumin indicates that the 4V output on the balanced connections with hot pin 2 are “recommended”. It just so happens that the DIN inputs on Naim amplifiers are also preferred to the unbalanced RCA-type inputs. There are cables that are built to XLR to DIN. I’m wondering if this would be electrically compatible (Lumin D2 XLR output to Naim DIN input) without causing a catastrophe. This is very Naim-specific, not sure if you’ve had this experience or question before.
Not recommended, although I do not rule this out completely. Your amp is designed for 2V sources. Feeding it a 4V input may potentially affect usable volume range, and I suspect there may be a small chance to cause clipping.
@anon20693046, I’ve arranged a home Demo of the NAIM ND5 XS2 in the next couple of weeks, when its back from its current loan, I’ll report back the results between the two. Thanks for putting me on to it, it looks exactly what I need.
The ease of getting a Naim home demo here was so simple, pretty much every dealer offered one. It was like blood from a stone getting one for a Lumin!
That’s great news. Should be an excellent comparison and I would be, as many others, super-interested in your feedback. I haven’t been able to go listen to or home demo anything yet, too busy with work and end of year stuff. BTW, what are using for amplification and loudspeakers for this demo?