Max volume on start of playback via Airplay - Naim Mu-so & Mu-so Qb [Solved]

Hello @nate_lynch,

We attempted to fix this behavior with an update to the Roon client pushed in early May. While some users reported an improvement in certain situations, ultimately the patch did not resolve the issue.

We then determined in collaboration with the Naim technical team that this can only be resolved with an update to the Mu-so firmware.

It should be noted that this issue arose after an update to the Mu-so firmware. Our AirPlay implementation continues to work well with all other devices in the AirPlay ecosystem (sans one other device using a network module from the same manufacturer as the Mu-so).

We remain ready and willing to assist Naim in getting this issue resolved as soon as possible.

-John

I can confirm that there was a marked improvement after the May update but unfortunately the the unpredictability of the “fix” continues to be an issue.

Christ, what it do before the update?

Happened every time, for me, but now, since May, around 50% of the time :roll_eyes:

Oh , mine happens every time on all Muso’s…all firmwares up to date

Naim have confirmed, to me, that there is a problem with their firmware. They use 3rd party developers for some aspects of it’s production but the developers have had issues with Airplay implementation. As a result the developers passed the problem back to Naim a few weeks ago. The Naim software team are now looking at introducing a fix (work around) to resolve the issue but it doesn’t appear to be in much of a hurry.

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Is this recent info Paul?

Received the information from Naim last week.

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So nothing committing to the fix :frowning:

I’ve spoke to five people now independently - non have had a reply from Naim regarding the issue.

I was fortunate enough to assist Naim by providing information direct to Naim earlier in the year so I contact their Software Director occasionally for “news” rather than enquiring via the public support contacts.

After weeks of pestering Naim, the outcome is, they arent and probably won’t be doing a thing about this issue.

So thats me out of ever buying Naim again thats for sure.

First email:

“Only Mu-so and Mu-so Qb 2nd Generation - along with other new-platform Naim products – are officially certified as Roon Ready. Roon availability on earlier-generation products is based on a Roon-derived software workaround that we endeavour to maintain, but which due to resource restrictions is not a priority development area for us at this time.”

Second follow up after I questions some of that statement;

'Hi, this has already been esculated internaly. The fact is we just do not have the people in our software development team to undertake the task of doing this job at the moment. This is not to say that this situation may not change in the future.

The original Muso was never Roon compatible. This was something we found we could add by some “workaround” in the software. With the change by Roon this stopped working. Any new “workaround” will involve some complexity.

I guess if we had not added Roon to the original Muso. We would not be in this situation. So no idea of timescale.

Not the answer you had hoped for. But it has as I said been internally escalated. ’

So reading the responses it would seem that there was a ‘Roon derived software workaround’ that meant that this could work and there has been a ‘change made by Roon’ that has broken it. Hardly seems Naim’s fault although it would appear that they have made some attempts to help fix the issue.

I suspect there are some constraints in what can be changed at Naims end as the Muso’s are Apple Certified and the process of making changes to Airplay support will require Naim to still comply with these certifications.

I don’t think there was ever a time when the units worked though?

I don’t know a whole lot about writing code, but I really cannot see why this is such a complicated problem to fix, I think in reality, Naim dont want to invest in any work to it so that one would need to buy their Roon Ready Muso 2’s. Stuff the people that supported and bought the product in the first place, we just want the new money.

This is just Airplay I may add, i am not expecting it to be fully Roon Ready, I know they want to keep that for their new customers and the Muso 2’s, I just want it to turn on without foing to full volume! Its not a lot to ask.

Just to add, there have been other messages sent to others affected by this that contradict this response as well.

The problem started with the Roon update, it worked fine before, look back from the start of the thread.

As I understand it, that is not the case.
AirPlay2 is supported by Roon as standard and hence compatible with the Roon software environment. MuSo & MuSoQB both functioned perfectly until a firmware update was provided by Naim. It is worth noting that other AirPlay2 devices do not suffer from this problem.
After much discussion and investigation between Naim & their software developers, a “firmware bug fix” is unlikely to happen.
Naim’s Software Director told me that he is looking at providing a “dirty fix” such as sending volume control instructions when receiving initialise instructions from Roon which will overcome the maximum volume issue.
This is, it appears, a low priority job and no timescales for the implementation of a fix have been offered. Having accepted the need to provide a solution suggests that Naim will eventually provide the necessary fix.
Naim does appear to be providing different information from different areas of their business but I am optimistic of a resolution.
This doesn’t do Naim’s reputation any good but certainly, as it stands, does not reflect negatively on the Roon software. What does not reflect well for Roon is their communication on this, and many other issues raised in the community.

Regards.

Both of my MuSo devices worked perfectly until Naim updated their firmware, I am sure others had the same experience.

I think you have way to much optimism in this but I’ve pretty much been told it wont ever get fixed. I hope that you are right and I am wrong though!

Just to add, none of my other Airplay devices through Roon have this issue at all. The Audio Pro’s I have in the office all work fine. Its ONLY the Muso’s. The most expensive. The ‘premium’ ones.

Yes, that is correct.

On re-reading properly the response @Mikey got from Naim, I am more and more confused … and increasingly worried. I try to stay optimistic like @PixelPopper, but struggle :unamused:.

We are creeping close to a year since first reports on potentially equipment damaging incompatibility between Roon and the Mu-so, and it does feel like being strung along. Not even sure by whom!

I for one would now like to cut through the proverbial cr… and get information which allows me to decide if it is time to give up hope on a fix and move on.

I have no real understanding of the AirPlay / AirPlay 2 protocols, including requirements for backward compatibility; or whether Roon and Naim are still actively talking and seeking a solution. Naim’s answer doesn’t suggest prioritisation at their end…

So, the following info seems relevant to make a reasonable assumption on what to expect:

  • is Roon’s AirPlay 1 implementation actually fully compliant with the protocol? (I always understood it is)
  • is there any real prospect of Roon implementing AirPlay 2?
  • is Naim’s AirPlay 2 implementation fully compliant with the protocol?
  • does AirPlay 2 compliance require backward compatibility with Airplay 1?
  • are Roon and Naim still actively communicating and trying to solve this between them, for the benefit of their customers? Do they have confidence in a solution?

I may have missed answers in threads on this forum - if so my apologies. Someone from @support who wants to chip in on any of the above, perhaps?

(I am not in the blame game, just looking for information so I can decide whether to continue to try and deploy the Mu-so in combination with Roon)

Over to the stream of conscience and my specific ‘problems’ with the response from Naim. For those with too much time on their hands and not easily bored. (Maybe put some music on, but be ready to turn the volume down)

In my understanding the first sentence is true, but has nothing to do with the problem. I thought “Roon Ready” is about RAAT, and has nothing to do with AirPlay or AirPlay2 compatibility of the Mu-so? The (first generation) Mu-so was and still is listed by Roon under 'Roon Tested AirPlay devices", which I assume is correct.

I also fail to completely understand the meaning and implications of the second sentence: ‘Roon availability’ - Is this a reference to AirPlay ‘1’ standard compliance?; ‘Roon-derived software workaround’ - also not sure what this means. Was there already a special ‘workaround’ for Roon required before the Mu-so implemented AirPlay 2? - We know that Roon was/is not supporting AirPlay2 - in March Roon said:

The bit ‘Airplay 2 devices should work with Roon’ is probably crucial. Does Airplay 2 compatibility include / require correct handling of Airplay ‘1’ streams?

Naim’s answer continues to say:

Again - the first sentence is confusing in its use of ‘Roon compatible’ and appears beside the point, if the problem is with AirPlay / AirPlay2. The remainder only seems to try and put ‘blame’ with Roon, which does not bode well for collaboration towards a solution.

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You raise some interesting points that I believe only @support can answer.
The reason for my “optimism” is that Naim have always referred to doing “a fix.” So, I continue to be hopeful. :roll_eyes: