Thank-you, I’d not heard either phrase, now I know
Well, it was half said in jest. It’s interesting that a member of the Roon team made a comment on the thread, but in relation to some side issue instead of the main theme of the thread - the latter being the lack of Roon team input into forum discussions! Kind of ironic. Either he read the discussions and chose not to respond, or just dipped in at that particular point. Either way it’s somewhat disappointing, given the call for more user base involvement.
Well, on a positive note, it means the Roon team have at least read it
A very good theory book on these issues is Exit, Voice, and Loyalty from 1970 by Albert O. Hirschman, He discuss how customers can leave or use their voice to get improvements - and how organisations can foster “voice” if they go for that option. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exit,_Voice,_and_Loyalty
It’s a very interesting concept & one that I’m well aware of…The relationship between Roon team and forum users is however rather awkward.
It could be argued that without the users there is no team, yet there are only a small fraction of total users that are active forum regulars. So, how much weight should be given to what is said by either a small number or a large number within the forum?
What I would like to say is that the Roon team does receive a great deal of free ideas (useful to them or otherwise). from some very intelligent people from varied walks of life.
On that basis alone, I would assume that whilst not all ideas will appeal to the Roon team, there must be a fair proportion that makes sense to the team, along with meeting their own ideals.
There would not be a successful business that did not listen to good minds. Further, that is why many businesses, governments etc seek outside advice from professionals. On that basis, @mikeb @extracampine I assume the Roon team must read, at the very least topics that develop. Perhaps, they don’t bother reading feature requests beyond a heading as there is no need.
This is not the case. Roon does look at feature requests and wants to understand what is behind them.
With this, as I have seen a few times, they can come up with something better and not just the same things other products do, that people think they want.
It is clear from this thread and the one on features never used that one persons basic feature is another ones useless feature. A product where they simply add features demanded by users on forums, or where features are added by some ranking/voting method on forums (as keeps being suggested from time to time here) would soon become a mess.
If you want a feature explain why you would like it and how you would use it and why it adds to your music enjoyment or listening experience as best you can and you might have a chance. Put it in or add it to an existing single feature request not lists of top 10s or missing basic features as these are of little help and generally are not giving any reason behind why you want it. I can’t find it now but I’m pretty sure the Roon team has said they are really not interested in those kind of threads.
Roon does this but not to those who are only shouting and demanding.
Roon could use their change management/roadmap also as a marketing instrument. Hinting users what there is to come. It’s not mandatory, just a missed opportunity.
However to implement features that are not requested versus unimplemented features that many considered basic features, is strange.
Is the final product supposed to please the developers or those pesky but paying customers?
Probably both, I think. I’m sure the decision makers at Roon see these threads and formulate their business model as they see fit.
There are without doubt features that some consider basics and others no, that some use and others don’t, but beyond that there are also basic functions by definition, vertical scrolling and user management to name only two which regardless of their level of usefulness for different users/scenarios they remain basics in any computer based system. You can find other examples by yourself, including some exclusively related to music playing/management.
I don’t know why people insist on bringing other software into the discussion, this thread is about Roon. What goes on elsewhere is irrelevant.
Sorry, but I’d say comparison with “similar” software should be relevant to a conversation about what are basic features (or not). Not that Plex is in any way “similar” to Roon, certainly where music playback is concerned.
I would disagree based on what I’ve seen and read, but can’t confirm what has been addressed by way of features requests, user input and the like. Personally, I haven’t seen many folk around here shouting & of the few that may have are typically those disgruntled users letting their subscription lapse. Not those who like Roon and only want to see it grow better for all concerned.
Your quote from Danny sits in between the two posts from jtwrace. He has stated his reasoning & in the bigger picture, it relates to numerous requests for better profile management that seems to have been an ongoing discussion for years.
Buzz words or jargon such as:
intentions and goals
…are really quite meaningless and to me are deliberately said as they aren’t explicit. So, they say very little at all and are open to interpretation.
If there was real intent there would be some forum rules other than a mere:
“Post your suggestions for features here!
we will periodically mark features with brackets [ ] in the title explaining if it is done or not on the roadmap.”
This provides no guideline whatsoever as to how one should make a feature request. Accordingly, people just request away. Typically over the years, some users get very frustrated.
Obviously we all have different needs beyond the necessity of the software enabling us to stream music seamlessly - which countless other pieces of software allow us to do. So, as per your post what is one person’s basic feature, maybe somewhat minor to another.
Again, if that’s the case, why don’t the Roon team sticky such an item to avoid user dissatisfaction? Surely it would take just a few moments?
Notwithstanding, I’ve found this thread engaging with plenty of useful information. I’ve learnt that Roon can’t make text cut and paste & the reason why. In the future when that is requested once again (as no doubt it will be), I’ll be able to let the user know it cannot happen. Further, there has been some interesting talk about other software such as LMS and more within this thread.
This is a great suggestion at least if nothing else sticky the [on roadmap] threads.
I guess its as easy as https://community.roonlabs.com/search?q=on%20roadmap runs for cover
I am not going to not renew based on 1 missing feature that I want. The only other things that bugs me is that so many artists have missing artwork, so when browsing artists there is a bunch of gray squares. I slowly fix those and its fine. But since Roon is the only product of its kind I don’t really have a choice but to use it Just because I have no faith that my feature request will never get implemented does not mean I hate the platform or don’t want to renew.
As you mentioned, it would not really make a difference to me if the Roon devs said “At this point in time we have no plans to implement such a feature,” because that does not change anything for me or anyone else. I just want to know why. Is it because the request does not fall in line with Roon’s “vision” or is it because there are more pressing matters for the time? Or is it because its a stupid idea they don’t want to waste time on? But in the end I know the feature I want is small and that bug fixes and development of major upgrades is much more important for the user base as a whole, so I let it go. It is not a dealbreaker to me.
I also wonder what it takes to add new features or changes, especially for the ones that seem to simple. I don’t know much about software coding or development so I have no idea if a new feature would be an easy update. I usually assume they won’t be because it would take me so long to even attempt to do that .
I enjoy reading some of the album reviews and/or artist bios, and sometimes look at the credits on a particular track I like. I also like to see the album cover and a couple of pictures of the artists. Other than that, I don’t really care if some information is missing or if some of it is incorrect. I’m here to listen to music I like, nothing more, nothing less.
It seems like an easy thing to use an album from that artist if the artists picture is missing. iTunes is dumb like that too.
The artist pictures are pretty much worthless, 90% of the time I have no idea who those people are. Especially a lot of older music, who the hell are those old people?! They look like the old person in my bathroom mirror…
JRiver figured out this 1000 years ago!
As evidenced by the 1000-year old GUI and UX in JRiver.
To be clear - there are many pieces of software/apps that will do that just fine; that is stream seamlessly to various locations at little to no expense (and yes we’ve read here some are free). Also many don’t have restrictions on your favourite streaming service as occurs with Roon - Tidal or Qobuz, (the latter officially only available in 13 countries if I recall). Nor, do they need specific hardware, as in minimum requirements to run as is required with Roon core.
So on that basis, given the vast difference in cost between Roon and those other pieces of software; there is definitely an expectation by many that Roon must offer more - and it does. Similarly, there also appears to be the expectation it should do so without bugs/glitches and various other anomalies.
I often wonder the same & suspect the addition of numerous feature requests would not be difficult to implement at all. One can only surmise why.
I often like to view my music via genre. I think I keep my genre list fairly tight, as I’m just not into the ever-changing genre names let’s say in the world of electronica. Yet I’ve still got listed 133 genres. I can’t fathom why I can’t view my genres alphabetically (so I can find what I want), but have to remember avant-garde is way at the end of the ad hoc list - that bugs me.
Missing artwork for artists is also annoying in the sense it just ruins that view within the user interface. Yup, I had started to fill in many of the missing artists, I stopped after a few pages in & put that on the back burners. I’d like that view to look appealing - grey certainly is not. I’ll get up to it when time permits.
I’ve not seen JRiver in years…I never liked it. However, just imagine if Roon could do likewise with their interface?
So, I don’t think it’s about pointing out a separate supposed weakness of another piece of software, (GUI and UX), more about thinking could Roon achieve the same and how much better would Roon be if it did.