Issue: Missing sound in the first few milliseconds at the beginning of a song on CHORD Hugo M.Scaler
Hello dear Roon members and community. I am writing to let you know that I am experiencing the above problem. My setup is as follows M1 mac mini (Roon Server)-(USB cable)-Chord Hugo M.Scaler-(Dual BNC cable)-Chord DAVE Roon Ver: 2.0(build 1470)
The mac mini is connected to the LAN via Ethernet. iPad is used via Wi-fi to control Roon. All songs are local files in the mac, mostly FLAC files from 44.1kHz to 352kHz.
The beginning of the first song is missing for a few milliseconds. Only the “first song” is missing. It usually does not happen for the second and subsequent songs that are played in succession. In other words, it is not a “gapless playback” problem.
However, I know that this may not really be something I should write about here, because this is not a Roon problem.I know this is a Hugo M.Scaler problem.
Since I became aware of this problem, I have sought help and information from other communities and my dealer. What I found out is that there is no “buffer” on the USB input of the Hugo M.Scaler. This seems to cause the sound to be missing when the sampling rate needs to be locked. So, in the first song, the first sound is missing, but from the second song onwards, as long as the sampling rate is the same, there is no problem. The cause is the Hugo M.Scaler...more specifically the chip implemented for the USB input in it. Chord is aware of this problem but has no plans to improve it. Also, according to my dealer, devices with such implementations are often found in products other than Chord. This is what my dealer confirmed with Chord and gave me the answer, so I am probably sure of it.
So, I don't blame the Roon folks at all... I just want to ask if there is anything that can be done on the Roon side to solve the problem when connecting to a device with these specifications.
Among the settings that can be made in Roon, here are a few that I have tried to no avail at this time Set the Resync Delay in the Roon settings. -It seems to work because it waits for the set number of seconds, but then HMS skips the beginning of the song and starts playing it as usual.... Change the Clock master priority. Set the buffer size.
2. What I know now This problem did not occur when upsampling to maximum (705.6kHz or 768kHz) on Roon before playback. (The up-sampling had to be maximum at this time, any other value did not make sense.)
I opened Roon's settings panel and tried so many things. So I'm thinking that the currently available settings may not be able to solve the problem. But I decided to ask you one last question to see if there might be something I can do. If you have any ideas on how to connect with these poorly designed devices, I would be very happy if you would consider implementing them in future development. (An example I could come up with would be to play silence at the same sampling rate as the song being played for just a few milliseconds to a second before playing the song...? But I'm sure there are smarter ideas.)
Except for this problem, the music I enjoy on Roon is great :) Thanks for reading this far.
Describe your network setup
Router: SONY NSD-G1000T Switches: NETGEAR GS108X-100JPS Router - Switches - Mac mini : Ethernet cables (CAT-6A)
Thanks for telling me how Resync Delay works.
But as I already wrote, Resync Delay had no effect… Strictly speaking, it delays playback for the exact amount of time as specified, but the first sound is still missing.
In other words, it simply delayed the start of playback.
As you mentioned, this may be the reason why USB is not on this list.
Thank you for your reply! I have tried upsampling with Roon, but I preferred to do it with HMS.
And from the feedback I’ve gotten from my dealer and the HMS community, it doesn’t seem to happen with optical or Coax connections. I haven’t actually tested it because I don’t have the equipment…Perhaps something like this could be used.
But to be honest, I don’t think it is aesthetically pleasing to connect several such devices together, so I don’t want to choose them until there is nothing else to do.
I am wondering if there is anything I can do before that.
I wonder what that might be? You already got told about the USB issues of your chosen device. You tried already what options there are in Roon and nothing worked for you or you decided against its use (up-sampling).
As I see it, this is exactly the place you’re at now.
Your options seem to be:
Choose another input on the mscaler, even if that means adding additional hardware to your chain.
Stop using the mscaler (assuming your DAC’s USB input doesn’t suffer from the same issue as the mscaler’s). Experiment with upscaling in Roon or swap to HQPlayer (may again need additional hardware though, but I’m not a user so don’t know; check: HQ Player ). See also: HQPlayer versus mScaler - Google Search
Do you leave your Hugo/Mscaler powered up between listening sessions or power them up at the begining?
I ask as I had some minor issues with Mscaler synchronising on power up at the start of a session, It was resolved by leaving the Mscaler powered up so it then synced immediately as the other equipment powered up, problem solved.
It’s worth a try…
What I know now is what you said, but I am not a professional. So I am posting here in the hope that someone else may know of some way I don’t.
Or, even if I can’t find a solution now, maybe a Roon staff member who reads this post will be able to help me find a solution in the future.
Unless I can find a dramatic solution that I can do right now, I will probably give up and choose those methods at some point. But I would like to find some more.
Thanks for sharing your experience!
I usually turn on my M Scaler when I listen to music and turn it off when I’m done.
I will try the method you mentioned next time I listen to music. I will let you know how it turns out.
You are correct. I have heard that this happens at the time M Scaler locks the sampling rate of the song.
So, if M Scaler “waking up” as you say and locks the sampling rate on the first song, it won’t be a problem unless it comes off or changes.
My dealer said that Chord told him that “you could solve the problem by muting the amp, pressing the play button, and when you sees that the seek bar has advanced some distance, unmute it and play from the beginning”. That is certainly true.
However, from my point of view, this is…not a very civilized method
Thank you for your post. From my investigation and my understanding of the conversation above, you’re requesting whether an existing feature in Roon can conditionally add several hundred milliseconds of Resync Delay when triggered by the M Scalar’s sample rate detection rather than Roon’s. Unfortunately, that’s not the case.
Ultimately, nothing in Roon is malfunctioning, so this thread won’t find a resolution in the Support section. That said, here are your options:
Technical Support will escalate internally with our Partners team to see if Chord has any provided workarounds other than that you’ve mentioned above. We’ll keep this post open until we get a response.
Based on what you’ve said below, it sounds like you want to generate some traffic on this post. Post in Roon Software Discussion, where the inquiry won’t have an auto-close timer and where more users are likely to see it.
Another option would be to request a feature request in Feature Suggestions that summarizes what you mentioned below.
Hi, I have a similar setup as yours, just that I have the Naim NDX2 connected to Roon and to Chord Dave / MScaler. I remember having a similar issue when I first set it all up. I have resolved it by going into device setup and changing the Resync Delay from 0 to 2000ms. Lower values may also work but this one works for me.
I listened to the music using the process you described.
Thanks for your experience and advice ! Indeed, in this case, even the first song can be played without missing any sound… very mysterious.
I usually set up as follows
I sit on the couch and talk to my Google Nest mini. "OK, Google. turn on the audio.”
Google accesses the Home Assistant on the Raspberry Pi.
A script on the Home Assistant activates the PS AUDIO Stellar PowerPlant 3 using the smart IR remote control.
The M Scaler, DAVE, and Etude connected to the Stellar PowerPlant will wake up.
The same script sends a packet to wake up the mac mini, login to the mac via SSH, and reboot it.
I hear the macs start up sound. I hear it and take out my iPad.
This time I disconnect only the M Scaler from the Stellar PowerPlant and connect it to an empty wall outlet instead.
However, it seems that this method avoids this issues only for the first song selected at the time… Miracles only happen once.
For example, if I pause the first song after it has played without any problems, and after a few seconds the OP SR button on the M Scaler goes off, the next song that plays will missing a few milliseconds. Or, if the sampling rate is unlocked between songs, the next song will also missing the first sound. This is because the sampling rate needs to be locked again.
It was also not possible when the album playback ended and Roon Radio changed to a song with a different sampling rate. In this case, M Scaler needs to switch the sampling rate, so the beginning of the song is missing there.
In short, this setup is not a radical solution to M Scaler’s inferior USB chip.
Still, this is a very big step forward. Let me say it again. Thank you!
I haven’t made much time to listen to music in the last few days, so I’ll try some more this weekend and check it out more closely.
Hi. Thanks for your reply!
As you say, you are not to blame in this regard. Let me be clear on that point as well, Roon is very easy to use. I am satisfied with it.
Thanks for the choices…1. is attractive, but probably not to be relied upon… My dealer also contacted CHORD, but there didn’t seem to be any hope of improvement.
I will consider about 2 and 3. You have already given me one promising idea, so I will dig a little deeper into this on my end. After that, I may make a post there.
Thank you kindly!
When I asked in another community, someone also told me that Resync Delay improved the situation. It looks like you solved the problem too.
However, from reading Roon’s HELP, it looks like it doesn’t work with USB, and my dealer also told me that this problem is not improved by Resync Delay. In other words, opinions vary from person to person XD
Does your setup look like this?
mac- (Etharnet or Wi-fi) - Naim NDX 2 -(BNC) - M Scaler
From the image you attached, it looks like the Resync Delay is done to the Naim NDX 2, but it may have an effect on the M Scaler connected beyond it.
My dealer has also confirmed that there is no problem with M Scaler’s input other than USB, so I guess it is still a sure thing to use something other than USB.
Or it might be different if there is a Roon Ready machine like a network player or streamer in between.
Yesterday I thought “This is amazing! What a discovery!” but why doesn’t it work today…?
I have tried turning the mac on and off many times and it seems strange.
I noticed that when I started the mac in this way, M Scaler responded in two different ways.
One is the moment the mac starts up, the LED on the OP SR button lights up red (44.1 kHz).
The other does not respond to anything at all.
And when the LED glows, the first sound is output without missing. But when the LED does not light up, the first sound is missing.
I don’t know why…I will need to look into this more.
